# Guys, stop enabling these women. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 18, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390 "2012-12-18T02:32:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/21 "2012-12-18T08:02:49Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Trust me women have it worse than some pathetic blokes. Oh god here we go. It’s the war cry. Time to circle the vaginas !!! ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/22 "2012-12-18T08:38:03Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > It’s what real gentlemen are expected to do, pay for a woman’s meal /sarcasm. > > Did these free-loaders eventually pay back the moron ? If not they’re going to be inviting this chump out for lunch all the time. I had a co-worker pull something similar, his meal would of came out to 15$. He said all I have is 10$ is that ok ? (with no offer to pay me back). Sorry I don’t have the extra cash either, no chicken for you today I guess. I knew (past tense) a girl who would do this with everyone, not just men. When the shared bill came, everyone else would pull out cash, and she’d just wave her credit card, and ask the waitress if just her share could be put on the card. Which it rarely could. Usually someone else ended up paying her share, but did she ever start carrying actual _cash_, rather than assuming she could just card it? Hell no. And given she was a rich little girl from a mansion full of servants, and in well-paid work, and I was a single mother with no income, I hated her for expecting us to pay HER way. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/23 "2012-12-18T11:05:42Z")
Yeah, and I’d be the king of Ireland if it hadn’t been for the English. It’s called “rationalization.” ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/24 "2012-12-18T11:06:31Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Oh god here we go. It’s the war cry. Time to circle the vaginas !!! We talking circling like wagons, or birds of prey? I don’t know about you, but either way, that sounds terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/25 "2012-12-18T11:25:15Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > My, you are picky! > > Women are perfectly entitled, whether consciously or subconsciously, to take advantage of men that want to sleep with them, whether consciously or subconsciously. Women who do this are immoral bitches. It ISN’T right to take advantage of men this way. And when their looks go, and they get a bit older…well, it might be too late for them to learn how to cope with life when they can’t just bat their eyes and ask some horny man to pay for them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/26 "2012-12-18T11:30:52Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Nope. Men want to sleep with most attractive women. Attractive women can take advantage of that. So what? So it costs women in general greatly in terms of lost respect from men, including the women who aren’t doing that sort of thing. It also feeds right into the stereotype of women feeling nothing towards men except greed. It’s also exploitative. And rather hypocritical, given how women always claim that men who just look at them as a source of sex are exploiting them. If manipulating a man to extract money for him is OK, then it’s hard to see why manipulating a woman to get sex from her isn’t OK. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/27 "2012-12-18T11:51:23Z")
There are guys that pay for lunch? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/28 "2012-12-18T12:05:44Z")
This is despicable behavior on the part of the ladies and sad chump behavior on the part of the men. It would be unheard of here in the Netherlands. What these men need is a snappy comeback that gets them off the hook. A good one is: “And here I was hoping you’'d pay one for me”, accompanied by a flirty grin". Or “Sorry, my girfriend/mother has taught me that I insult women by assuming they can’t pay their own way, so I won’t insult you by paying”. And if the woman says “Well, I won’t be insulted,” you could say, unsmiling “You should be.” In **Shakes** ’ case, it would be good to remove the flirty banter and be business like about it. "“Hey, that five bucks you owe for the pizza yesterday, can I have it back?” Conventional beauty: "No, I don’t have any money. Shakes: “That is okay, you can bring it tomorrow, then” :: turns away:: Conventional beauty: “I thought that was a treat”. Shakes: "No, we agreed to split costs. Afterwards you told me you had no money. I’m willing to treat that as a honest mistake, so you can bring me the money tomorrow. " :: turns away:: ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/29 "2012-12-18T12:27:51Z")
Because the OP’s scenario is set in the workplace, I don’t think it’s about dysfunctional mating ritual. I’ve read that little boys practice physical cruelty, while little girls practice social cruelty: “you’re stupid. We don’t want you here. Nobody wants you here!” Where I work, it’s not exactly Mad Men with the booze in the desk drawer and the secretaries in the stationery closet (OK, those both have happened here, but anyway, on to my point); but rather the big brass balls ethos is still strong as ever. You can tell at any meeting anyone’s importance by how much of his sentence he’s allowed to finish before being interrupted. It’s a higly technical field, but the technicians don’t rise to the top. We’ve all encountered the kind of man who does rise up instead: “I can sit wherever I like, and wherever that is is the head of the table” It’s a tough nutsack to crack, and while a lot of women have adapted and make successful direct confrontation, other women will fall back on the tried and true feminie tactics of manipulation and backstabbing. A $5 pizza scam off some lower-management guy isn’t a major coup, but more like a “I can do this to you and you can’t do anything about it” cruelty boost like a woman being pinched on the ass on the subway. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/30 "2012-12-18T12:38:29Z")
I always bring my lunch. I save a lot of money every week that way, and I can better control my carb intake. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/31 "2012-12-18T12:41:58Z")
> [@Cinnamon\_Imp](#): > > When the shared bill came, everyone else would pull out cash, and she’d just wave her credit card, and ask the waitress if just her share could be put on the card. Which it rarely could. (snip) > > And given she was a rich little girl from a mansion full of servants, and in well-paid work, and I was a single mother with no income, I hated her for expecting us to pay HER way. Most restaurants CAN accommodate this type of transaction, IME. However, as someone who rarely uses cash, I’m not understanding the problem even if they can’t. She puts the entire amount on her credit card. The rest hand her cash for their portion. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/32 "2012-12-18T12:47:53Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Because the OP’s scenario is set in the workplace, I don’t think it’s about dysfunctional mating ritual. I’ve read that little boys practice physical cruelty, while little girls practice social cruelty: “you’re stupid. We don’t want you here. Nobody wants you here!” > > Where I work, it’s not exactly Mad Men with the booze in the desk drawer and the secretaries in the stationery closet (OK, those both have happened here, but anyway, on to my point); but rather the big brass balls ethos is still strong as ever. You can tell at any meeting anyone’s importance by how much of his sentence he’s allowed to finish before being interrupted. It’s a higly technical field, but the technicians don’t rise to the top. We’ve all encountered the kind of man who does rise up instead: “I can sit wherever I like, and wherever that is is the head of the table” > > It’s a tough nutsack to crack, and while a lot of women have adapted and make successful direct confrontation, other women will fall back on the tried and true feminie tactics of manipulation and backstabbing. A $5 pizza scam off some lower-management guy isn’t a major coup, but more like a “I can do this to you and you can’t do anything about it” cruelty boost like a woman being pinched on the ass on the subway. Louis C.K. has a bit in his routine similar to this: _“A man will, like, cut your arm off and throw it in a river. But as a human being, he’ll leave you intact. He won’t fuck with who you are. Woman are non-violent, but they will shit inside of your heart.”_ If you haven’t seen this bit, it’s pretty hilarious. [Here’s the whole bit. (NSFW: Lots of swearing)](http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=ZpW3orlfp7E&feature=endscreen) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/33 "2012-12-18T14:55:28Z")
The guy should say, “Pay for your own damn lunch - I’m not paying your way, bitch.” She will hate him. For a few minutes. And then will want to fuck him because he’s a Bad Boy. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/34 "2012-12-18T14:59:37Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Most restaurants CAN accommodate this type of transaction, IME. However, as someone who rarely uses cash, I’m not understanding the problem even if they can’t. She puts the entire amount on her credit card. The rest hand her cash for their portion. The places (in Scotland FWIW) that we were in the times it happened, couldnt - they’d run it up as one bill, so could only process the card for the whole bill, not a portion. It was a couple of years ago, so I can’t remember why she didn’t card the whole bill and take the cash as you’ve suggested - if I could, I’d use the trick myself to get out of a bill or two 😉 (joke. I hate feeling that I owe anyone anything!) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/35 "2012-12-18T15:09:05Z")
Girl-1: Hey Guy-1 can you pay for me? Guy-1: Sure. Here’s your appetizer. _\_ ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/36 "2012-12-18T15:57:59Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > … Time to circle the vaginas !!! I have that DVD. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/37 "2012-12-18T16:40:19Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > Somebody could base a commercial or two on this. That would be [childish](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZmuTGFusIs) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/38 "2012-12-18T19:05:05Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > This is despicable behavior on the part of the ladies and sad chump behavior on the part of the men. It would be unheard of here in the Netherlands. > > What these men need is a snappy comeback that gets them off the hook. > > A good one is: “And here I was hoping you’'d pay one for me”, accompanied by a flirty grin". > > Or “Sorry, my girfriend/mother has taught me that I insult women by assuming they can’t pay their own way, so I won’t insult you by paying”. And if the woman says “Well, I won’t be insulted,” you could say, unsmiling “You should be.” > > In **Shakes** ’ case, it would be good to remove the flirty banter and be business like about it. "“Hey, that five bucks you owe for the pizza yesterday, can I have it back?” > Conventional beauty: "No, I don’t have any money. > Shakes: “That is okay, you can bring it tomorrow, then” :: turns away:: > > Conventional beauty: “I thought that was a treat”. > Shakes: "No, we agreed to split costs. Afterwards you told me you had no money. I’m willing to treat that as a honest mistake, so you can bring me the money tomorrow. " :: turns away:: Honest, but not exactly snappy. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/39 "2012-12-18T19:10:13Z")
This was at work, so these women presumably have jobs right? I love how women demand equal pay and yet they still want to be taken care of financially by men. Have your cake and eat it too eh? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/40 "2012-12-18T19:10:33Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > And neither one of you sees a moral quandary in this? Stating a fact isn’t the same as making a judgement on it. Do women do this? Of course. Should they? No. > [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > My, you are picky! > > Women are perfectly entitled, whether consciously or subconsciously, to take advantage of men that want to sleep with them, whether consciously or subconsciously. Sure. I think it’s up to responsible women not to take advantage, but it’s also up to guys to call women on this bullshit. It’s not like bad behaviour is reserved for one gender, either - there are millions of guys taking advantage of women, too. How many women think a man expressing interest in her means he’s interested in _her_, not just her girly bits? > [@grude](#): > > Can I see a problem in something while not say wanting the government or police to swoop in and deal with it? I mean do I want laws banning women from using vagina power to freeload? No, but I’m cool with expressing disapproval. Yup. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > The guy should say, “Pay for your own damn lunch - I’m not paying your way, bitch.” > > She will hate him. For a few minutes. And then will want to fuck him because he’s a Bad Boy. Yeah, that too. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390.md?page=3)