# Guys, stop enabling these women. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 18, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390 "2012-12-18T02:32:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/61 "2012-12-19T16:18:25Z")
How exactly does the OP know, with certainty, that these two fellows didn’t owe the girls some money? Say for a Christmas collection when the guys were shy cash? Or out at the bar a few nights ago? Or the girls bought lunch last time they went out? Unless you know this with certainty, I’m not seeing how you can cast aspersions on anyone, to be honest. Besides which people can only take advantage if you play along. Both fellows played along, no gun to head. They are grown men. It’s on them entirely. And I’m really not seeing how it’s any of your damn business. What was keeping you from going to an ATM and getting cash for your share? Would have kept you from this entirely. The world _is_ warmer and more cooperative to pretty girls. I’m not seeing that it’s going to change anytime soon. Even if you’re stridently _not_ into the flirting to advantage angle, if you’re a pretty young thing, it seems whenever you are in distress there is always a willing volunteer assistant near by. You didn’t ask for that, you’re not ‘taking advantage’, you’re being offered help/assistance! You’d be a fool not to accept. But looks fade, and no one stays young forever. One day you become aware that the world isn’t quite as embracing and willing as it once was. The power and beauty of youth cannot be understated, but you better bring something more to the game, for when those things are gone. If you are correct and they _are_ taking advantage, consider their future. If you’re all about your looks, and you’re heavily invested in looks as ‘asset’ or currency, the key to getting ahead, your future isn’t going to be pretty. Because you _will_ get old and less attractive, and then even you won’t like you and you’ll be destined to never find happiness. Yikes! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/62 "2012-12-19T18:11:14Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > How exactly does the OP know, with certainty, that these two fellows didn’t owe the girls some money? Say for a Christmas collection when the guys were shy cash? Or out at the bar a few nights ago? Or the girls bought lunch last time they went out? > > Unless you know this with certainty, I’m not seeing how you can cast aspersions on anyone, to be honest. Oh, for fuck’s sake. Why does somebody always hear a goddamned zebra approaching? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/63 "2012-12-19T18:17:21Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Oh, for fuck’s sake. Why does somebody always hear a goddamned zebra approaching? Ah yes, the grand old Internet debating approach that goes “Let’s imagine some set of circumstances that would mean I was right, and pretend that’s what happened”. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/64 "2012-12-19T18:34:12Z")
Two grown women … with full time jobs … and _neither_ of them had five dollars? Tell those two guys to get in touch with me. I have some lovely ocean-front property in Nepal I’m looking to sell. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/65 "2012-12-19T18:36:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, for fuck’s sake. Why does somebody always hear a goddamned zebra approaching? > [@](#): > > Ah yes, the grand old Internet debating approach that goes “Let’s imagine some set of circumstances that would mean I was right, and pretend that’s what happened”. What’s your freaking problem exactly? Are you saying that had you overheard such an exchange your first thought would be, “These girls are clearly users!”, and not “Maybe he owes her money.”. Maybe it’s just me but my first thought would be, something else might be at work that I am not privy to. So terribly sorry my honest opinion sent you both over the damn edge. I will try to refrain from upsetting you in future. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/66 "2012-12-19T18:54:32Z")
Oh good, that’s very thoughtful of you. Maybe, I don’t know, I assumed that if you were short of five bucks and someone present owed you five bucks, you might ask “Hey, guy #1, you got that fin I lent you?” and not start whining for someone to pay for you. But yeah, I agree in principle it’s _possible_ things were playing out the way you called it. It’s just that plenty of people in this thread aren’t finding it at all hard to believe this was just the Mooch Sisters in action. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/67 "2012-12-19T19:52:57Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > ‘Dumbass’ probably got reimbursed by the Producer off-camera. You know, that’s a possibility I hadn’t considered. Possible, I guess. Still, the appearance was conveyed. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/68 "2012-12-19T20:01:18Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Love it. > > You begin the treatment, while I get in talks with a producer. The screenplay should write itself. > > Now we just need a name… Westward, Ho! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/69 "2012-12-19T21:17:16Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Westward, Ho! /decorous applause ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/70 "2012-12-20T02:08:55Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Westward, Ho! Perfect! Weta Digital is putting together a proposal on the giant CG vaginas, and Andy Serkis says he’s in! ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/71 "2012-12-20T08:17:55Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Sorry to disappoint you. But his professor asked if he did the work himself. He admitted that he got a little help on it. > > I think the professor passed him to get rid of him. The guy was a douche. If the guy was a “douche,” you were one and then some. What’s with not helping a roommate out, six months and one guitar lesson? Your time must be really, really goddamn valuable. And I’m sure that homework help must have seemed like hundreds in your eyes. Not to mention that you were breaking several ethical conventions, and you knew it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/72 "2012-12-20T13:07:50Z")
> [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](#): > > Two grown women … with full time jobs … and _neither_ of them had five dollars? > > Tell those two guys to get in touch with me. I have some lovely ocean-front property in Nepal I’m looking to sell. I almost never have cash on me. Of course, when the subject of lunch comes up I say “I don’t have any cash, it will need to be somewhere I can use a card.” Or, I run to the cash machine. My parents have long time friends like this. He forgets his wallet. They stopped going out for dinner with them and now my mother just meets the wife for coffee. i don’t think it’s a gender thing, although cute young women possibly have longer term success ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/73 "2012-12-20T17:31:16Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > What’s with not helping a roommate out, six months and one guitar lesson? Sometimes a roommate is not a friend you choose to live with, but someone you are assigned and have to put up with for the semester. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/74 "2012-12-20T19:00:02Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What’s your freaking problem exactly? Are you saying that had you overheard such an exchange your first thought would be, “These girls are clearly users!”, and not “Maybe he owes her money.”. > > Maybe it’s just me but my first thought would be, something else might be at work that I am not privy to. > > So terribly sorry my honest opinion sent you both over the damn edge. I will try to refrain from upsetting you in future. Yeah, but if someone orders food on his card, then you either check you’ve got it in cash, or check that he’s ok with you paying him later. I did get stuff for by male friends and acquaintances a lot when I was younger, and still occasionally even now, to the point that protests get awkward. I scrub up well, and have never been short of guys hitting on me, but that’s pretty ordinary, really. I think it’s mainly that I’m generally a lot poorer than the bloke and they’d probably do the same for poorer male friends if social etiquette didn’t make that awkward. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/75 "2012-12-21T12:12:28Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > What’s your freaking problem exactly? Are you saying that had you overheard such an exchange your first thought would be, “These girls are clearly users!”, and not “Maybe he owes her money.”. > > Maybe it’s just me but my first thought would be, something else might be at work that I am not privy to. > > So terribly sorry my honest opinion sent you both over the damn edge. I will try to refrain from upsetting you in future. Yes, if I heard that, I would not assume he owed her money, for multiple reasons. First off, she was already trying to get the OP to cover for it. If someone owed her money, it would have made more sense for her to have had them pay for it. Second, when getting someone to pay for you who owes you money, you tend to remind them that they owe you money. If she doesn’t mention it, he has no way of knowing that his payment will count against what he owes her. Money that is given to you is assumed to be a gift unless one side or the other mentions it being something you owe. Third, she already has shown a history of trying to manipulate people into paying for her by waiting until the OP had already ordered the pizza. Fourth, she has a history of a lopsided relationship with the other person. Finally, he did it for the other lady, too, and it is unlikely she owed him money. And his reaction showed that he didn’t think it was fair. And it wasn’t your opinion that offended. It was how you presented it. You acted all offended that the OP judged the lady. You got all upset that they cast aspersions on them. And may I remind you of your previous comment that people who get all offended because someone decided to judge someone are generally very judgmental themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/76 "2012-12-21T12:39:16Z")
Just a thought: how would these women react if they were accused of _sexist behavior_? (dialogue script stolen from the Captain Awkward site) **Shakes:** Girl-1 you got your $5? Girl-1: I don’t have any money. Shakes: [Face Palm] Girl-1: Hey Guy-1 can you pay for me? Guy-1: Uh.. Wha..? Yeah, I guess. Shakes to Girl-1 “That’s pretty offensive.” . Now, about [work question] OR “Wow.” + [beat of awkward silence] + [work question/innocuous topic change] OR “Awkward.” + [beat of awkward silence] + [work question/innocuous topic change] Girl-1: [derailing word-vomit of questions like “What did I say that was offensive? Why is that offensive?”] Shakes: “It’s sexist and not appropriate for work. So, about work question…..“ DO NOT ENGAGE her on the substance of why the thing is \_\_\_\_\_\_ist. Even if you’re correct, it’s not an argument you will win to your satisfaction or want to engage in. Just keep repeating, in the most boring, flat, monotone and trying to change the subject. If she really pushes back at you, defer to her position as woman. “How would you suggest I respond when someone says something sexist or acts sexist at work? No matter if it was a man or woman who did that?“ > [@](#): > > Short definition: Sexism is both discrimination based on gender and the attitudes, stereotypes, and the cultural elements that promote this discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/77 "2012-12-21T13:16:26Z")
> [@Cinnamon\_Imp](#): > > I knew (past tense) a girl who would do this with everyone, not just men. When the shared bill came, everyone else would pull out cash, and she’d just wave her credit card, and ask the waitress if just her share could be put on the card. Which it rarely could. Usually someone else ended up paying her share, but did she ever start carrying actual _cash_, rather than assuming she could just card it? Hell no. > > And given she was a rich little girl from a mansion full of servants, and in well-paid work, and I was a single mother with no income, I hated her for expecting us to pay HER way. Sometimes I wonder if that is how rich (unprincipled) people stay rich. A few years ago, my wealthy sister came to town for our grandmother’s funeral. All she had for cash was a hundred-dollar bill. For some reason, for the 2-1/2 days she was there, she could \*never \*find a place that could make change for a hundred dollar bill. :dubious: So places that were cash-only (the parking lot, the small coffee shop), she could never pay her way. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/78 "2012-12-21T13:17:47Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I will NEVER go in on anything with ANYONE again. > > Last Christmas My older brother had the great idea that the 6 kids would all chip in for a TV for the folks but he couldn’t put it on his card because he was over-reached… > > I’m sure you see where this is going; I bought my parents a TV and my 5 brothers and sisters took equal credit :rolleyes: I’m so happy that, in my family, if I were you, I would feel no shame in announcing to all 5 siblings that they’d better pay me back or nobody who owes me money (specifically for the TV gift) will receive ANYTHING for Christmas… ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/79 "2012-12-21T13:44:06Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I once had a roommate who bugged me, every day for at least six months, to give him a guitar lesson. One day he was so relentless that I finally gave in. When the lesson was over, he admitted that he had no money. He offered to pay me in weed. Really? He bugged you for six months about giving him a guitar lesson? And only after the lesson did you mention that, oh, by the way, my hourly rate is $30? Bull shit. Unless he actively lied, and said, “Yes, I will pay in cash,” you’re incredibly naive for expecting payment. This is very different from a spur of the moment, “Oh, I forgot to bring my wallet to Papa John’s” situation. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390/80 "2012-12-21T13:46:07Z")
> [@seewuh](#): > > I’m not exactly attractive enough to pull this sort of thing off very often, so maybe I am just bitter, but these women are awful. > It is one thing to ask someone to cover you for lunch, but it is a completely different thing to say you’ll chip in when you know you don’t have any money. > There have been times in my life where I was usually broke, so I have used flirting to get someone to cover me for food or drinks a few times. I, however, always have the intention of paying them back. Unfortunately, have a horrible memory for that sort of thing, so I usually don’t. Hahaha! Classic. “I’m different from them, but I do the same thing.” Classic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-stop-enabling-these-women/644390.md?page=5)