# Guys, Y U no listen? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424 "2013-04-11T17:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/202 "2013-04-12T06:22:46Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > [sidenote] > This is the worst thing ever. I see it all the time, ironically mostly from women excusing their bad behavior. Well, it’s not really ironic at all. Both “Th’ peen made him do it!” and “Oh, it’s just her vagina-blood day!” are used by both men and women, sometimes to excuse indefensible behavior and sometimes to dismiss the mental capacity of an entire gender. They are almost directly homologous. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/203 "2013-04-12T06:49:35Z")
> [@colander](#): > > You do realize that prostitutes themselves get raped more often than pretty much _any other sector of the population_, right? To suggest that rape-os wouldn’t be so molesty if only there were more prostitutes around is completely goddamn idiotic. > > Ugh. This is less productive than yelling into my cat’s butthole. Yeah, I realize that. You do realize that prostitution is **illegal** and probably much of the reason those rapes occur, right? In the sense that Prostitutes have no legal recourse should the situation occur. Again, not to excuse the behaviour of men who do this, or even the guy in the OP. But, it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/204 "2013-04-12T07:01:21Z")
> [@colander](#): > > Well, it’s not really ironic at all. Both “Th’ peen made him do it!” and “Oh, it’s just her vagina-blood day!” are used by both men and women, sometimes to excuse indefensible behavior and sometimes to dismiss the mental capacity of an entire gender. They are almost directly homologous. I say it’s ironic because it robs you of your agency. It’s used as a way to, effectively, put yourself down when you’re actually trying to make yourself be viewed as better for doing something bad. It’s a way of saying “I’m a crazy person with no control over my actions” when you mean to say “no, it’s not my fault!” Same thing with “but I think with my peeeeeenis”. It ceases being ironic, in both cases, when used by the opposite gender. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/205 "2013-04-12T07:02:56Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > But, it happens. Hey, did you know that male flour beetles can impregnate a female beetle they’ve never even met? One in eight flour beetle pregnancies happens this way. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/206 "2013-04-12T07:19:16Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Hey, did you know that male flour beetles can impregnate a female beetle they’ve never even met? One in eight flour beetle pregnancies happens this way. No, I did not know that. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/207 "2013-04-12T08:18:34Z")
Geez there’s a lot of shit in here, some of it funny some of it sad. I stand by what I said before but please note the qualifiers. Ask any bloke if he’s made bad decisions when a combination of a stiff dick and a few personality tablets (aka alcohol) have been involved and most will say yes. In this case, IMO, the OP, Mean old Lady didn’t do much wrong. Maybe could have stopped before taking him into the apartment, calling the cab from outside and leaving him in the lobby to wait, but she had every right to think “hey, he’s a nice enough bloke (I’m just not into him) he’s accepted the ground rules, no need to be a bitch” Fair call. The bloke on the other hand, also didn’t do too much wrong if I read the OP properly. He didn’t try to force anything, just tried to see if he could turn the situation around a bit. When I read “Touching” I think maybe the hand on the leg or shoulder, not going the grope. No real harm in gently testing the boundaries to make 100% sure apart from pissing off a bit the person who thought they made it pretty clear. Yes, No means No but unfortunately not all women play by the same rules. Some like to push a blokes buttons a bit by playing hard to get because they want to see how keen the bloke is. Some are open to seduction (NB, Seduction does not equal force or rape) I’ve had first had experience of a woman who needed to be seduced. She was apparently ready to go home, we were both standing when I came up behind her, put my hands on her waist and kissed her gently on the neck. Her mouth said “No”, her actions by pushing back against my groin and grabbing my hands and sliding them up to her breasts said something quite different. Couple of minutes later, she grabbed me by the front of the pants, asked where the bedroom was and led me there. Provided I read the OP correctly, this bloke wore out his welcome quickly because he kept pushing his luck past the point where it should have been totally obvious that it wasn’t his night, but didn’t do much that a very large number of men wouldn’t do in similar circumstances. If I’m missing something that may change my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/208 "2013-04-12T09:01:30Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > You do realize that prostitution is **illegal** and probably much of the reason those rapes occur, right? Do countries that have legal prostitution have fewer rapes? Maybe a better question: when prostitution is legalized in a country, do rapes grow rarer? I guess I’m participating in a highjack but nobody seems to be complaining about it. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/209 "2013-04-12T10:00:02Z")
This thread is making me sick. I need to stop checking in on it. “Some women need to be seduced, even when their mouths say no!” That’s fucked up shit. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/210 "2013-04-12T10:59:08Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > Do countries that have legal prostitution have fewer rapes? Maybe a better question: when prostitution is legalized in a country, do rapes grow rarer? The problem is that prostitution tends to be legalized in countries that have worked through a lot of their sexual neuroses, OR in countries in which women have no rights at all. We’d really need to look at men who frequent prostitutes: **panaccione’s** hypothesis would predict that these men engage is less sexual assault than men who don’t frequent prostitutes. And no, **pan** : yet again, the problem is not sexual frustration. That happens to everyone, but not everyone acts like a creepo. The problem might possibly be watching too many sitcoms and trusting them more than the person you’re with; or, more likely, the problem is an arrogant sexual self-centeredness that holds women in contempt. Rather than go off any further on the non sequitur about sexual frustration (again: NOT THE PROBLEM), focus on what distinguishes the creep from everyone else, and figure out how to change our society so that fewer people hold women in contempt. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/211 "2013-04-12T11:46:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Provided I read the OP correctly, this bloke wore out his welcome quickly because he kept pushing his luck past the point where it should have been totally obvious that it wasn’t his night, but didn’t do much that a very large number of men wouldn’t do in similar circumstances. I think you read an entirely different OP. from what I read, the man had an enjoyable date with MOL & could have had many more. She is all kinds of awesome and it’s a pity he “no listen”. his loss. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/212 "2013-04-12T11:53:17Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > I think you read an entirely different OP. > > from what I read, the man had an enjoyable date with MOL & could have had many more. She is all kinds of awesome and it’s a pity he “no listen”. > > his loss. I must have read a different one because my reading was he wasn’t getting another date, let alone many more. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/213 "2013-04-12T12:31:31Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Yeah, I realize that. You do realize that prostitution is **illegal** and probably much of the reason those rapes occur, right? I hate to rain on your PROSTITUTION MAY BE THE ANSWER parade but prostitution is **legal** in more than 50% of the counties in Nevada and rapes still occur every day. It’s not legal in the major cities but there are legal brothels just outside of Reno and Carson City and a few within a 40ish minute drive of Las Vegas. Less prostitutes are being raped because they’re generally working in a controlled and safe environment, but statistics aren’t showing that the general population of women are any safer from rapists due to your magic bullet fantasy of prostitution. So maybe you might consider finding a different virtual shovel to use to dig yourself deeper in that hole of ridiculousness you’ve created in this thread. Unreal. > [@pricciar](#): > > I’m glad MeanOldLady started this thread. It’s not often that posters at this message board highlight the problems men have in our female dominated society. Men are alone in the big city, with absolutely none of the power in the male-female dynamic. This unfair distribution of power has scarred generations of men, and it is not getting any better. > > MOL cajoled this fellow to journey away from his safe home to the farthest, darkest, coldest section of Chicago. She carefully picked a restaurant that closes it’s doors to the public at a certain hour. She chose a night that had a horrendous weather forecast (a rarity in Chicago). She led this poor powerless creature into her home on the pretense of making a phone call. She let him know in no uncertain terms that she wasn’t interested in sex with her fancy words. With her eyes? Oh, they obviously told the true pornoriiffic story. If she didn’t give this message with her eyes, where else would this poor man get the idea to make a move? No one has an imagination that strong, people. Cruelly, MOL teased him and teased him. Going as far as talking (has anyone ever had sex without talking first? No. Therefore, if you have a conversation with a date it is tacit approval of intercourse) for more than 10 minutes. Until, finally, forcing the guy to take a cab home. This guy’s night was ruined. > > Did he really deserve that? He did everything the female biased mainstream media demands of gentleman callers. He attentively watched her talk while at the restaurant, he kept his hands off of her when out in public, and he never took his clothes off. The misguided fool followed all of the rules, and he still went home unsatisfied. This female terrorism has to stop. Please, Mothers and Fathers, think of all the sons out there who deserve sex on a first date. Let’s end this today! Absolute perfection. Quoting entire passage again for awesomeness. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/214 "2013-04-12T12:45:25Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > You know, this smells vaguely gamey, but I kind of agree with the premise. I love dogs and cats equally, but I’d rather pet the cat that sidles over, plays it cool and gives me some space than the embarrassingly overzealous dog which humps my leg with its tongue lolling out. But its a nice leg! Anyway, **MOL** …you didn’t actually use the word “disabused” in a sentence directed toward him, did you? Its no wonder he didn’t listen! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/215 "2013-04-12T13:16:20Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > The word “no” isn’t a signal, isn’t debatable, unclear, and has only one meaning. Not unless you are actually pointing the pistol at my head when you say it. And if you fire a warning shot, that means “maybe”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/216 "2013-04-12T13:23:13Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > So in the future, if I have the option of sheltering a (seemingly) nice guy from a downpour, I’ll think twice about it, and if I choose to help a brother out, he stays in the lobby. He gets nowhere near my apt. A shame you can’t just do someone a solid. True enough but then just make sure you know there is blame aplenty to go around for this situation, on both sides of the gender divide. I think I may have told the long version of this story on the SDMB before (in a similar thread): I was once the male in an extremely similar situation, involving a young lady who was hospitable to me in a logistically awkward situation. Like you she made it clear - crystal clear - that the fact she was inviting me in was not in any way to be taken as a signal that she was, yanno, “_inviting me in_”. I was gentlemanly about it and took her at her word.. Some few months later we actually ended up in bed together. At which point she told me she had been so frustrated and angry at me that I hadn’t made a move on her that night a few months before. She _couldn’t believe_ I had just taken her at her word when she’d said that her inviting me in wasn’t intended to mean anything. So don’t think this is entirely about men being fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/217 "2013-04-12T13:51:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not unless you are actually pointing the pistol at my head when you say it. > > And if you fire a warning shot, that means “maybe”. > > Regards, > Shodan If **MOL** ’s date had fired a ‘warning shot’, the night would pretty much have been over anyway, no? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/218 "2013-04-12T13:56:27Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > This thread is making me sick. I need to stop checking in on it. “Some women need to be seduced, even when their mouths say no!” That’s fucked up shit. It really isn’t worth the gamble to “test her” to see if she really means no. Can’t speak for any but myself, but if I’m not attracted to someone no amount of pawing, pleading, or groping is going to convince me to put out. I know, I know, couple you guys have posted real life examples of women who changed their mind after you persisted in groping them (gross), but trust me when I say that when you hear the word “no” GTFO. If, after donning coat, hat, and uttering a terse “I said Good Day, Madam!” she shucks and blocks your exit with her naked body, hit it. Acting otherwise is risking your reputation, lifelong legal repercussions, a kick in the balls and a free membership to the sex offender registry. Seriously, guys, why the pity for this rude, ungrateful putz? Would you be as generous with your sympathy if he were pestering **MOL** for _money_? “C’mon, MOL, I know you have a job. Give me five dollars. You have a roof over your head, plus, you were nice enough to let me in out of the rain, why wouldn’t you spot me 20? I see you have furniture. Give me some change, at least. I just want some money.” If this were the case, you’d tell that guy to beat it. Either way, he should totally beat it. He hasn’t earned money or tang just by virtue of having spent a few hours chatting with her. And **panicionne** , I don’t know if you’ve heard, but our legal system is overburdened with overflowing prisons, our government can’t make heads or tails of gun control legislation, weed, or the budget, North Korea is about to cap us, and our healthcare system is sinking under the weight of, well, you know. It isn’t feasible to prescribe legal prostitution as a remedy to rapists. Plus, why in the hell do we want to placate rapists? They fucking rape people! Fuck those guys!! Also, no. Try a poll. Ask men if they’d happily pay for what most women and the majority of men get for free. Ask if blowing paychecks on hookers will be an adequate substitute for intimacy, love, and relationships. Ask if men who pay for every imaginable sex act by a subservient employee will lead to frustration with women in their lives who aren’t quite so… shall we say _open_ to performing every sex act under the sun on command, and ask if frequenting whores will elevate or degrade their opinion of the opposite sex. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/219 "2013-04-12T14:01:19Z")
I kind of wish **Mean Old Lady** had started this in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/220 "2013-04-12T14:03:55Z")
I know some silly women do play the ‘No’ means ‘Tee hee, aren’t I flirty?!’ game, but seriously, if all guys just treated ‘No’ as ‘No’, eventually the silly girls would grow the fuck up and quit playing, because they’d never get laid. It’d be an all round win, really. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/221 "2013-04-12T14:05:00Z")
> [@stui magpie](#): > > I’ve had first had experience of a woman who needed to be seduced. She was apparently ready to go home, we were both standing when I came up behind her, put my hands on her waist and kissed her gently on the neck. Her mouth said “No”, her actions by pushing back against my groin and grabbing my hands and sliding them up to her breasts said something quite different. Couple of minutes later, she grabbed me by the front of the pants, asked where the bedroom was and led me there. Cool story, bro. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=12)