# Guys, Y U no listen? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424 "2013-04-11T17:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/282 "2013-04-12T19:50:47Z")
So you’re able to read the minds only of women that you or your friends know, then? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/283 "2013-04-12T19:52:03Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > So you’re able to read the minds only of women that you or your friends know, then? ??? What is this about reading minds? I’m just saying there have been plenty of women around who said “no” but ended up later, with no pressure whatsoever, saying yes. My comment is based on the actions of these women. And no of course not all women say no when they mean yes or crap like that. Just that enough women do it that it can be confusing to some men. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/284 "2013-04-12T20:00:25Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Just that enough women do it that it can be confusing to some men. And if confused, you should generally err on the side of caution. Which, incidentally, is the side that doesn’t include date rape-- the side I think most decent folks would like to land on. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/285 "2013-04-12T20:06:14Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > After getting the spiel that she was not interested in me and was only being nice, I would have no desire to wait in her apartment. I would have called a cab on my own. Great. So now she’s a bitch for telling him upfront what she wanted. And if she hadn’t?? Bitch shouldn’t have led him on. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/286 "2013-04-12T20:08:55Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Great. So now she’s a bitch for telling him upfront what she wanted. And if she hadn’t?? Bitch shouldn’t have led him on. Wow, everything I say is misconstrued. Nope not a bitch, which I never even implied. More women should be as direct as MOL. Just saying I would have no desire to spend any further time with someone who made it clear they weren’t interested in me. What’s so bad about that? This was a date, not two friends hanging out. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/287 "2013-04-12T20:10:36Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > And if confused, you should generally err on the side of caution. Which, incidentally, is the side that doesn’t include date rape-- the side I think most decent folks would like to land on. I agree 100%. I’ve never claimed anything otherwise. Women who play games and fuck with men’s minds should be ignored in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/288 "2013-04-12T20:11:06Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > After getting the spiel that she was not interested in me and was only being nice, I would have no desire to wait in her apartment. I would have called a cab on my own. So you wouldn’t have come upstairs and tried to feel me up anyway? And the spiel was crystal clear? Interesting. > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > ??? What is this about reading minds? I’m just saying there have been plenty of women around who said “no” but ended up later, with no pressure whatsoever, saying yes. My comment is based on the actions of these women. And no of course not all women say no when they mean yes or crap like that. Just that enough women do it that it can be confusing to some men. What’s all this about later? I’ve turned down attempts before because I didn’t want anything right then. If I do later, it doesn’t mean I was saying no when I meant yes. I meant no at the time. If you’re confused about what someone means, listen to the words they are actually saying. Don’t worry about what you think she might be thinking or about what happened that one time with that one chick. If someone says no, there’s no need for confusion. It’s a no. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/289 "2013-04-12T20:12:13Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > The problem is that lots of women say X will not happen, and they probably even mean it when they say it. But what they mean is “just talk me into saying yes, because that’s what I really want and I don’t want to seem like a slut.” Happens all the time. > [@](#): > > My point is that plenty of women \*do \*send mixed signals and say no when they mean maybe, and that’s what this dumbass was hoping for. Have these ‘many women’ actually told you that this was their thought process, or did you make that up for yourself? > [@MostlyClueless](#): > > Seems like someone over here is just rationalizing asshole behaviour. > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Not rationalizing it. Just reporting what I’ve seen many, many times. > [@MostlyClueless](#): > > The key word here is ‘seen’. You didn’t ask. You assumed. Did you actually ask the women in question, and did they actually tell you that was what they were thinking? So far, not a single woman agrees with you. > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Huh? Not a single woman here agrees that me and/or many males I know have experienced the situation I described? > [@MostlyClueless](#): > > You seem convinced to know what the women were thinking, without having asked. > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I was talking about women that I have known and male friends have known. I have no idea about any of the women on this board. Again, have you actually asked any of these women what they were thinking? Or did you read their minds? ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/290 "2013-04-12T20:14:47Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > ??? What is this about reading minds? I’m just saying there have been plenty of women around who said “no” but ended up later, with no pressure whatsoever, saying yes. My comment is based on the actions of these women. And no of course not all women say no when they mean yes or crap like that. Just that enough women do it that it can be confusing to some men. And once more…have you actually asked any of these zillions of women what they were doing? Perhaps what you and your friends consider “no pressure” doesn’t feel like that to them. Perhaps they changed their minds, due to your stunning personality and charm. Since you insist that you know what they’re thinking and why they’re behaving this way, either you’ve asked them or you’ve read their minds. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/291 "2013-04-12T20:15:06Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Wow, everything I say is misconstrued. Nope not a bitch, which I never even implied. More women should be as direct as MOL. Just saying I would have no desire to spend any further time with someone who made it clear they weren’t interested in me. What’s so bad about that? This was a date, not two friends hanging out. Well you also said a bunch of other stuff that was kind of stupid like “Well women like to play yes/no games, so it’s sometimes confusing when women give a forceful no. What does that mean? What is ‘no’ code for? So, you know, it’s not so bad that a guy wouldn’t take no for an answer.” ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/292 "2013-04-12T20:18:00Z")
Whatever. I’m done. Women never play games, ever. Men do nothing but pressure women constantly for sex. Half the people on this board are virgins and have no idea what they are even talking about when it comes to sex/dating. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/293 "2013-04-12T20:23:14Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Whatever. I’m done. Women never play games, ever. Men do nothing but pressure women constantly for sex. Half the people on this board are virgins and have no idea what they are even talking about when it comes to sex/dating. :rolleyes: Nice extremes there. Yes, there are some people who play games. Big whoop. There are also a lot of people who actually, you know, mean what they say. How does the existence of game players make it okay to not take no for an answer? There are people who will refuse a second helping of a meal even though they want it. What am I supposed to do when this happens? Force food on them? No, I just say okay and am done with it. It’s always a better idea to take people at their word than to try to pressure someone into something they told you very clearly that they don’t want on the off chance they’re playing some kind of head game. Not rocket surgery. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/294 "2013-04-12T20:24:30Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Whatever. I’m done. Women never play games, ever. Men do nothing but pressure women constantly for sex. Half the people on this board are virgins and have no idea what they are even talking about when it comes to sex/dating. you should change your username to “Pissy Snits Are Best Revenge” ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/295 "2013-04-12T20:25:50Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Whatever. I’m done. Women never play games, ever. Men do nothing but pressure women constantly for sex. Half the people on this board are virgins and have no idea what they are even talking about when it comes to sex/dating. LOL. Yes, that’s exactly what we said. Poor, poor abused little boy. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/296 "2013-04-12T20:27:54Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > LOL. Yes, that’s exactly what we said. Poor, poor abused little boy. Oh, come on. You know you’re only saying no because you really want to slide on his junk. That’s why he’s being so persistent. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/297 "2013-04-12T20:28:53Z")
The projection here is astounding. We aren’t _you_. Sex is a bit riskier for us, both healthwise and socially. Women ought to be a little more cautious, and a little more choosy, and we usually are. We tend to go to bed with men we really, really want rather than choosing any port in a storm. You guys are celebrated for having a varied sex life and multiple partners; we are castigated for it. And the last I checked: you guys can’t get pregant, suffer cervical cancer, and are less likely to contract a number of diseases which can sterilize you before the first symptom even appears. Hollywood and pick-up artists insist that women are withholding in order to \*feign chastity \*and that we can be persuaded to give in with a little smooth talking, alcohol, and aggressive touching and pushy behavior. We’re not _feigning chastity_. We’re being cautious. Many women are reluctant to rush into a physical relationship either because we are cautious about our bodies and want to know a guy better. And/or because as much as we like sex, we don’t like being labeled a slut, a whore, or any variation of unequal, sexist labels that serve to repress and shame us. And because, fair or not, another bus will be along in five minutes. We don’t have to settle for the clueless horndog who won’t leave our apartment. We can totally find another trustworthy, sexy, savvy man to warm our beds, just as clueless dude can find another less choosy port for his storm. Take our word for it when we say “no” and GTFO. Don’t take a chance on a rape charge, don’t gamble on whatever PUA crap you’ve picked up, and don’t throw your life away by forcing yourself on a woman who hasn’t given you the green light. She may not be as kind and generous as MOL, she might just cry rape and have you arrested. It’s really not worth taking a chance. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/298 "2013-04-12T20:47:53Z")
Just for the record, I have, on some number of occasions in my life, been invited to participate in an activity and declined the invitation. And then later, sometimes even _later the same day_, I did it anyway. Like when I totally did not have any desire to see _Natural Born Killers_, but my friends talked me into it because they really wanted to see it. And I hated it but someone else wanted to go and I’d already seen it so what the hell. And I eventually saw it in the theatre 7 times (a record for me) and ended up liking it. Obviously I’m just a game-playing slut who wanted someone to make me do it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/299 "2013-04-12T21:06:39Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Wow, everything I say is misconstrued. Nope not a bitch, which I never even implied. More women should be as direct as MOL. Just saying I would have no desire to spend any further time with someone who made it clear they weren’t interested in me. What’s so bad about that? This was a date, not two friends hanging out. So if you’re not getting action on the first date you’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/300 "2013-04-12T21:14:33Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > So if you’re not getting action on the first date you’re done. Women who say yes only on the second date are “playing games,” duh. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/301 "2013-04-12T21:21:48Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > So if you’re not getting action on the first date you’re done. Well, yeah, because who needs friends and women are only as good as their hole, amirite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=16)