# Guys, Y U no listen? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424 "2013-04-11T17:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/402 "2013-04-13T04:33:28Z")
Whatever, it’s a stupid warning. I don’t need to start a whole ATMB thread to say that. And, for the record, the “douchebag PUA” statement wasn’t directed at any specific poster here. Or are we also not allowed to make oblique insulting references to groups in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/403 "2013-04-13T04:36:26Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > but it’s not the first time something mundane has caught the attention of some segment of the board ( drinking milk in a bar anyone? ) and taken on a strange life of its own. I had totally forgotten about the milk :eek: For anybody who remembers the thread : for the record, I did order a glass of milk in a fancy restaurant, and they did bring it to me. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/404 "2013-04-13T04:36:57Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Whatever, it’s a stupid warning. I don’t need to start a whole ATMB thread to say that. > > And, for the record, the “douchebag PUA” statement wasn’t directed at any specific poster here. Or are we also not allowed to make oblique insulting references to groups in MPSIMS. I will say again, feel free to make an ATMB thread about it..but drop the hijack in here, now. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/405 "2013-04-13T04:37:15Z")
Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/406 "2013-04-13T04:44:53Z")
This thread has just steeled my resolve to teach my daughter how to use a knife on a larger and stronger target before she gets old enough to date. I really don’t understand the blatant misandry of the “Oh, I can’t be bothered to listen, if she invites me in I MUST OBEY THE PENUS!” argument. Speaking as someone who possesses a penis, y’know, I am either significantly smarter than “most” guys or there’s some exaggeration going on with regard to how hard it is to tell “no” from “teehee, maybe”. Just a smidge, y’know? And really, it’s been said before and it bears repeating–why would you, as a decent human being, EVER want to put yourself into a situation where you raped someone or had sex with a resigned partner rather than an enthusiastic one? I don’t even come on to my WIFE as hard as some guys apparently come on to a first date. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/407 "2013-04-13T04:49:29Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > And really, it’s been said before and it bears repeating–why would you, as a decent human being, EVER want to put yourself into a situation where you raped someone or had sex with a resigned partner rather than an enthusiastic one? I don’t even come on to my WIFE as hard as some guys apparently come on to a first date. That’s a question for the ages that I fear the answer to. Guys who would push this, why would you want sex with a woman who doesn’t want you? Why would you want sex with someone disgusted by you? Or why would you want sex with anything less than an affectionate, enthusiastic partner? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/408 "2013-04-13T05:02:01Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Rape rates are notoriously both unreliable and disputed. Read any rape thread on this board and you’ll notice that depending on the source, between 96.7% and 0.3% of women are raped in the USA. good luck trying to compare between two countries. I rephrased the question. Don’t really expect any such examples, though. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/409 "2013-04-13T05:33:23Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > Of course, only the women are getting warned. I don’t know why I’m surprised. This. > [@Troppus](#): > > That’s a question for the ages that I fear the answer to. Guys who would push this, why would you want sex with a woman who doesn’t want you? Why would you want sex with someone disgusted by you? Or why would you want sex with anything less than an affectionate, enthusiastic partner? And this. I’ve asked this countless times in this thread and no one has answered. I assume the men who think a no is a yes that needs convincing are just pathetic and desperate, so they will take what they can get. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/410 "2013-04-13T06:08:37Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Please stop posting to this thread. Everything you say is stupid LOL. Uh huh. Sorry I didn’t just say “you poor thing, how dare he?” You titled your OP as a question regarding **men**. It wasn’t about “a guy” it was about “guys” and you posed it as a question. Sorry. “That guy sucked!” “What the fuck?!” “You rock **MOL!** ” _better?_ ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/411 "2013-04-13T06:18:10Z")
Man, you started off so reasonable earlier in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/412 "2013-04-13T06:21:55Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Man, you started off so reasonable earlier in the thread. What have I said _anywhere_ that is in the least bit “unreasonable”? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/413 "2013-04-13T06:36:11Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Everything you say is stupid and makes God angry. And honestly I feel this sort of nastiness and rudeness is completely uncalled for. All I have been doing is trying to contribute to this thread; I haven’t been disrespectful or unpleasant at all. Yet I’m met with this offensiveness nonetheless. Don’t worry about me posting in your threads **MOL**. You’ve turned me the fuck off from doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/414 "2013-04-13T06:59:46Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > LOL. Uh huh. Sorry I didn’t just say “you poor thing, how dare he?” You titled your OP as a question regarding **men**. It wasn’t about “a guy” it was about “guys” and you posed it as a question. Sorry. “That guy sucked!” “What the fuck?!” “You rock **MOL!** ” > > _better?_ Come on. You’re not that thick. Do you honestly think she was wording the OP in such a way that she really wanted an explanation from men in general or do you think she was venting about an asshole she made the mistake of being nice to? Her entire OP was her describing the actions of this ONE GUY and not asking anything about men in general. So you honestly, really-and-true, think that her title question was a serious question she was asking the men of the straight dope and not a silly play on the Y U NO meme going around? If you really think that then I have given you way, way more credit than reasonable when reading your responses in the past and I will never make that mistake again in the future. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/415 "2013-04-13T09:08:46Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > This thread is so stupid. After I hit submit, I had a moment of “Oh shit. I just opened myself to the ‘You should have known better. Men are incapable of being rational and decent human beings because they have penii’ crowd.” I was not expecting the “Well in his defense, bitches be lyin” crowd, and I certainly didn’t expect the “If we orchestrated wider access to pussy, this wouldn’t happen” defense. > > This is the SDMB in a nutshell. A lot of brilliant and/or hilarious people… and a lot of fucktards. Out of pure curiosity, which category would you place me in? I get you being annoyed at the blokes behaviour. I don’t begrudge him for trying but my read is that you put out crystal clear signals and he persisted way past the point where any sane bloke would have twigged that it was game over so he is worthy of venting at. Tone of voice and body language can tell more than the verbal. I’m guessing you had all 3 lined up and he was just thick from what I’ve read. My experience has been that no doesn’t always mean no. It never means yes but sometimes, depending on the circumstances, it means there is opportunity however long the odds are. So blokes will test the opportunity and the smart ones know when to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/416 "2013-04-13T09:19:17Z")
Holy Shit, you can’t be serious. Again with this “no doesn’t always mean no” schtick? How periously close you guys like to skate to the “don’t promote illegal activity” rule. You realize there are 13 year old boys posting and reading here of indeterminate size, strength, and maturity as well as their 20+ year old equivalents with similar measures of experience and gullibility? This promotion of sexual assault is shocking and unconscionable. Do you have daughters, sisters, mothers, or scruples? For the love of all innocence, stop promoting rape. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/417 "2013-04-13T09:45:23Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’ve already gone on record that the guy was a douche and I don’t want to wade into the “women sometimes play games” morass, but I don’t understand why everybody’s pouncing on **Living Well Is Best Revenge**. It seems like now you’ve turned the thread into a “men are pigs, let’s bitch about it!” clique and are just jumping at chances to be catty. I have seen some threads on this board on these topics tend to lean that way. That is why, even when the women clearly are right about a topic, I always lend my voice if there is a post that I disagree with, I will contribute to the thread, even if I know my overall opinion still agrees with the women’s position. Yes, MOL was a hundred percent correct in the OP, and the jerk was wrong in every way. But no, I won’t agree with a poster who pretends that the ‘no,no,yes’ game doesn’t exist. This way, all the men on the other side can’t pretend that all the women are just blindly lockstep in unity against them. Hearing a woman admit that yes, the game does exist, but that doesn’t mean you get to ignore a clear communication like the one MOL gave takes away the excuses of men who try to act as if they can’t tell the difference between a sexy, groaning, moaning “nooo, baby” and a clear as crystal military drill sergeant ass speech like MOL gave. I’m all about taking away flimsy excuses to people who like to play dumb. Speaking of flimsy excuses… > [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’m not trying to defend the guy nor guess what he might have considered a “green light” in light of those damning words by **MOL**. There are guys out there, as evidenced by this thread, who DO think the words are nothing but a flimsy pretext meant to save some face by the lady, or play hard to get, or whatever. The point is the guys exist. So be cognizant of that fact and behave accordingly. I am genuinely surprised to see you post this. I consider you more on the cutting edge of progress when it comes to people’s rights in general. It has long been the consensus, by thinking members of the society that we don’t tell a woman she needs to behave accordingly to how a fucking asshole may interpret our kindness or short skirt or late night walks. We can choose to either wear skirts to our ankles, never offer a dry shelter to a wet fool and clutch our pepper spray perpetually, or we can invite all the boys to the yard for milkshakes in our mini skirts while dancing a jig, and either way, the man who doesn’t accept a clear and concise and plainly stated “NO” like the one MOL gave is simply the one in the wrong, on every level. Doesn’t matter if the woman didn’t “behave accordingly”, doesn’t matter if she even secretly wants it, or is a weirdo that tells you later that she faked the whole speech because she is nut case. Regardless of whatever, when one gets a clear communication like the one in the OP, one needs to respect that, or one is just wrong, period. MOL took pains to make it clear that this isn’t some game of cat and mouse, so we have to stop pretending that men are too stupid to understand English. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/418 "2013-04-13T10:00:31Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Holy Shit, you can’t be serious. Again with this “no doesn’t always mean no” schtick? How periously close you guys like to skate to the “don’t promote illegal activity” rule. You realize there are 13 year old boys posting and reading here of indeterminate size, strength, and maturity as well as their 20+ year old equivalents with similar measures of experience and gullibility? This promotion of sexual assault is shocking and unconscionable. Do you have daughters, sisters, mothers, or scruples? For the love of all innocence, stop promoting rape. fair point about the young ones. I’m not trying to promote anything and as I’ve said repeatedly I absolutely don’t condone force in any way. The fact is, women (and men) aren’t a homogenous group. Each one is an individual and the rules they use are personal to them. There is no gold standard green light, ‘No’ is pretty much the gold standard red light, but there are exceptions depending on body language and tone. That’s not opinion, that’s experience. That girl I mentioned earlier I went on to date for 3 months so it was hardly a case of date rape. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/419 "2013-04-13T10:56:17Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > So we should behave as though all men lack self-control and will attempt to force themselves on us? Okay, but I bet you’re about to be stormed and attacked by the MRA brigade. **Der Trihs? blindboyard? solosam/lonecashew? Steophan?** Y’all cool with this, right? As long as you don’t preemptively attack every man you meet on the grounds they might be a rapist, do what the fuck you want. Ideally, be cautious and speak bluntly, because plenty of men, especially when drunk, will interpret anything said in a way that suits them. This is really a stupid thread. The guy in **Mean Old Lady** ’s story was an arsehole. Plenty of people are, but plenty aren’t. However, it’s also the case that plenty of women are teases (plenty of gay men for that matter, don’t really know about straight men as I’ve not slept with any), although plenty aren’t. If you’re absolutely certain you don’t want to have sex with someone, and you’re not close enough to them to know they won’t try it on with you, don’t be alone with them. Especially if alcohol or drugs have been consumed. This, by the way, isn’t about victim blaming, it’s about personal safety. Knowing you’re not at fault for what happened to you is cold comfort when you’re hurt or dead. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/420 "2013-04-13T11:25:25Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > My experience has been that no doesn’t always mean no. It never means yes but sometimes, depending on the circumstances, it means there is opportunity however long the odds are. So blokes will test the opportunity and the smart ones know when to stop. ‘No’ doesn’t always mean ‘no, forever and always.’ The ‘no’ of tonight may turn to ‘yes’ on a subsequent night. (I believe **DiosaBellissima** covered this ground pretty well way back in post 76.) But ‘no’ should damned well be taken as ‘no’ _for the rest of that encounter_. Sure, her lips and her body language may be saying two different things. But body language can be ambiguous, and if her lips are saying ‘no’ that should be pretty easy to understand and heed. If you’re right about the body language, you’ll be seeing her again, and you can see if she’s ready to say ‘yes’ _then_. This ain’t rocket surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/421 "2013-04-13T14:00:48Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > As long as you don’t preemptively attack every man you meet on the grounds they might be a rapist, do what the fuck you want. Ideally, be cautious and speak bluntly, because plenty of men, especially when drunk, will interpret anything said in a way that suits them. > > This is really a stupid thread. The guy in **Mean Old Lady** ’s story was an arsehole. Plenty of people are, but plenty aren’t. However, it’s also the case that plenty of women are teases (plenty of gay men for that matter, don’t really know about straight men as I’ve not slept with any), although plenty aren’t. If you’re absolutely certain you don’t want to have sex with someone, and you’re not close enough to them to know they won’t try it on with you, don’t be alone with them. Especially if alcohol or drugs have been consumed. This, by the way, isn’t about victim blaming, it’s about personal safety. Knowing you’re not at fault for what happened to you is cold comfort when you’re hurt or dead. Yeah, we know, can’t show anyone who finds us attractive the least kindness unless we feel exactly the same. But you know that’s not why I called you. I want to know why you are letting some of these guys speak for all men and claim that you guys are driven to behave stupidly and assaulty by your gonads. And while we’re at it, did you notice that \*\* MOL, Sleeps, ladyfox, Diosa, Me\*\*, and a couple other women called bullshit on that notion? I would have done the same as the OP in assuming that a guy I had a comfortable rapport with and who heard me say “no sex” would respect me and behave under those circumstances. You don’t need a MRA movement to protect yourselves from us; you have a rogue contigent in your midst claiming that you guys can’t be trusted and are led by your dicks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=22)