# Guys, Y U no listen? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424 "2013-04-11T17:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/522 "2013-04-14T02:19:18Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > And the “tard” thing really pisses me off. You know who really get sexually victimized in this world? The developmentally delayed. To go off about “tard” this and “tard” that in this context is in poor taste. It’s especially in poor taste to keep going on about it after being called on it by a guy whose daughter has developmental issues and who, I suspect, lives daily with the reality that he is pretty fucking helpless to be sure she’s properly protected in the world. Well considering my mother in law who works with the developmentally disabled, and a close friend of mine whose daughter is developmentally disabled, both use the word “retarded” with greater frequency than I could ever hope to aspire to, you’ll forgive me if I don’t give a flying fuck about your thinking it’s in poor taste. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/523 "2013-04-14T03:14:32Z")
> [@colander](#): > > **Ambivalid** , I think we can all agree that if there is anything that you are known for, it is the times that you decided it would be a good idea to wait by the car of someone who seemed to be parked illegally in a handicapped parking space with the intention of personally confronting the offender when they came to retrieve their vehicle I don’t know what the fuck you are talking about but I have _never_ done such a thing. You really fucking suck. I just wanted to say that. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/524 "2013-04-14T03:17:45Z")
Um, wait, are you seriously denying that you’ve done that? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/525 "2013-04-14T03:22:47Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I don’t know what the fuck you are talking about but I have _never_ done such a thing. You really fucking suck. I just wanted to say that. Huh. I’ve got a crazy crush on colander. Anyway, we just want to come and go as we please, just like you do. We don’t want to feel like victims or be excluded, just like you. And people are mostly awesome and respect the words no, and don’t park here, so we are reluctant to give up equality and autonomy just because a few jerks abuse privilege.I know you get this. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/526 "2013-04-14T03:26:02Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Um, wait, are you seriously denying that you’ve done that? I think you’re thinking of that **Jamie** guy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/527 "2013-04-14T03:33:40Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > But you have directly confronted people, yes? Blocked them in while waiting on the cops? If someone had jumped out of the car and beaten the shit out of you, and you vented about it here, would you have considered it appropriate for people to respond with"Well, you shouldn’t have done that"? > > In any other arena, when people stand up for their rights and get hurt, they are lauded as heroes. When it comes to women and sexual violence, they are stupid and careless and therefore deserve no sympathy I have confronted people, yes. I also admitted upthread that it isn’t the safest, nor most effective method of standing up for my rights. As I get more experienced as a disabled person living in the world, I can recognize that my confrontational ways are more about my anger (justifiable, imo) about the situation in the moment than they are actions towards a long term goal. My passion for disability rights is much better channeled through more structured, organized, legislative and yes _safer_ means. And I didn’t know that this instance of **MOL** letting a guy inside her apartment was ‘standing up for her rights’. And ‘I’ sure as hell didn’t say she deserved “no sympathy” for what happened. Not at all. Just offered my opinion as to what, that was within the power of the OP, would prevent such disasters from occurring. And yes, I know now that such advice was not asked for nor welcome. I am aware now. When I’ve confronted people parked illegally, the law has already been broken. So advising me to just “recognize that people will do that” and ignore it to be safe, while similar, is not akin to the situation here. Because here, by advising someone the “recognize that people will do that” (as in not listen to a woman’s ‘no’), they simply help them AVOID being a part of a crime that hasn’t yet been committed. It’s similar but I’m being asked to directly ignore a crime (albeit a minor one) on a routine basis in order to better ensure my physical safety, i.e. a larger crime like assault. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/528 "2013-04-14T03:40:34Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Um, wait, are you seriously denying that you’ve done that? Wait by a parked car until the driver comes back to confront them? No, I’ve never done that. If you’d like to bring some past thread or post of mine up that says otherwise to refresh my memory, please do so. I’ll eat my humble pie if so; because I honestly can’t remember ever doing such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/529 "2013-04-14T03:46:20Z")
I’m already anticipating someone bringing up the time I parked behind the car parked illegally at PlanetFitness. That was NOT an example of me confronting anyone. I parked the way I did because I had nowhere else to park. I simply parked behind the illegally parked vehicle, called the cops, got out and went on with my day. I never even saw the driver. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/530 "2013-04-14T03:51:48Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’m already anticipating someone bringing up the time I parked behind the car parked illegally at PlanetFitness. That was NOT an example of me confronting anyone. I parked the way I did because I had nowhere else to park. I simply parked behind the illegally parked vehicle, called the cops, got out and went on with my day. I never even saw the driver. That’s an interesting retelling of this post: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13947400&postcount=4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13947400&postcount=4) You argued with guy and blocked him for the purpose of preventing him from leaving. Or was that a different incident? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/531 "2013-04-14T03:56:00Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That’s an interesting retelling of this post: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13947400&postcount=4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13947400&postcount=4) > > You argued with guy and blocked him for the purpose of preventing him from leaving. Or was that a different incident? There’s no retelling here. :smack: That was the HHFC incident that got me banned. And even there I didn’t wait outside a parked car for the driver to come back. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/532 "2013-04-14T03:58:41Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > There’s no retelling here. :smack: That was the HHFC incident that got me banned. And even there I didn’t wait outside an illegally parked car for the driver to come back. No, you confronted him at the moment and blocked him in on purpose- really, a distinction with no difference for such a categorical denial that you gave **ladyfoxfire**. Her point stands. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/533 "2013-04-14T04:03:04Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Wait by a parked car until the driver comes back to confront them? No, I’ve never done that. If you’d like to bring some past thread or post of mine up that says otherwise to refresh my memory, please do so. I’ll eat my humble pie if so; because I honestly can’t remember ever doing such a thing. Wait, are you saying you just blocked them in with your car and left? Because that is actually a good deal _less_ defensible than waiting by their vehicle. If that’s not what you’re saying, then I regret to inform you that I am not a physician and am quite frankly completely stumped as to the nature of the brain damage that you must have recently sustained. Have you been doing neck lifts without a stroke squatter or something, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/534 "2013-04-14T04:07:22Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > No, you confronted him at the moment and blocked him in on purpose- really, a distinction with no difference for such a categorical denial that you gave **ladyfoxfire**. Her point stands. That’s utter horseshit, pardon my French. Parking behind the empty car and waiting there for him to return is NOT at all the same thing as, after the man (who pulled into the spot right next to the one I was parked in) acknowledged his illegal status and refused to move, parking behind the occupied car so that I could obtain the proper authorities. In the first, my motivation is solely to confront. In the second, my motivation is having the proper authorities be able to handle the matter. Not-the-same. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/535 "2013-04-14T04:09:22Z")
Sure. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/536 "2013-04-14T04:09:46Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > When I’ve confronted people parked illegally, the law has already been broken. So advising me to just “recognize that people will do that” and ignore it to be safe, while similar, is not akin to the situation here. Because here, by advising someone the “recognize that people will do that” (as in not listen to a woman’s ‘no’), they simply help them AVOID being a part of a crime that hasn’t yet been committed. It’s similar but I’m being asked to directly ignore a crime (albeit a minor one) on a routine basis in order to better ensure my physical safety, i.e. a larger crime like assault. You know how you could avoid the inconvenience of driving somewhere only to find that the handicapped parking space is illegally occupied by another vehicle? Stop driving. This wouldn’t prevent illegal parking from happening, but it wouldn’t affect you at all. If this solution doesn’t strike you as reasonable, practical, and convenient, then perhaps you could rethink your advice to women about how we could avoid unwanted sexual advances by never allowing anyone into our homes unless we intend to have sex with them: > [@Ambivalid](#): > > Your analogy falls apart because if the woman (or whoever) were to act cautiously and _not_ invite someone into their home that they didn’t know or want sex with, then no situation would have the possibility to occur. Period. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/537 "2013-04-14T04:13:12Z")
Bingo. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/538 "2013-04-14T04:20:27Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > You know how you could avoid the inconvenience of driving somewhere only to find that the handicapped parking space is illegally occupied by another vehicle? Stop driving. This wouldn’t prevent illegal parking from happening, but it wouldn’t affect you at all. > > If this solution doesn’t strike you as reasonable, practical, and convenient, then perhaps you could rethink your advice to women about how we could avoid unwanted sexual advances by never allowing anyone into our homes unless we intend to have sex with them: Aha. Um, ok. Because not driving is just on par with not letting strange men with whom you don’t want sex into your home alone at night out of a concern for your personal safety. Not driving to avoid the inconvenience of handicapped parking abuse would only lead to much, much greater inconveniences (and worse) caused by that not driving. What horrible pains are you suffering by not letting strange men into your home at night, at least when you don’t want sex? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/539 "2013-04-14T04:25:07Z")
It’s an absurdist argument to point out the flaw in the logic. It’s a form of rhetoric. It’s ludicrous to suggest that to protect a women’s safety she should never let a guy in unless she wants sex. It’s the argument radical Islamists use to defend the burqa and such. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/540 "2013-04-14T04:29:12Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s an absurdist argument to pint out the flaw in the logic. It’s a form of rhetoric. It’s ludicrous to suggest that to protect a women’s safety she should never let a guy in unless she wants sex. It’s the argument radical Islamists use to defend the burqa and such. Not _never_. Just in certain contexts, such as late at night, after both have been drinking and it’s been a romantic date. _Then_ a woman should exercise some caution. A bit of a difference from what you are trying to paint. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/541 "2013-04-14T04:34:12Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Of course “No means no” and all men should be advised to respect such words. When people are advised to act cautiously (and it’s not just women but people in general), it is in recognition of the fact that some men simply won’t respect those words. And if people hear such advice so often then why does it happen? \*\*Your analogy falls apart because if the woman (or whoever) were to act cautiously and _not_ invite someone into their home that they didn’t know or want sex with, then no situation would have the possibility to occur. Period. \*\* However, as a large black man, even behaving in the most respectful and cautious manner may not prevent a possible run-in with a police officer who may “have it out” for you. Emphasis mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=28)