# Guys, Y U no listen? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424 "2013-04-11T17:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/41 "2013-04-11T18:55:17Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > You sure you don’t like guys just a little bit? Yeah, that’s the typical response from my male friends when they hear this story, most usually being more like “I would’ve punched the fucking guy out.” But he wasn’t threatening. Just didn’t have boundaries. And I was 19 and the situation was playing out more as an “interesting/funny story” in my head at the time, so I was more patient with my approach to him than I should have/would have been today. In retrospect, I should have been out of there. I now see that a lot of what I had been doing (accepting his drinks and compliments, while brushing them off, walking back to the bus stop with him past his house) might get interpreted as “being a tease.” Anyhow, back to MOL. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/42 "2013-04-11T18:58:50Z")
So, what made you change your mind after you invited him up to your apartment? 😉 Every guy on the planet knows what this invitation is short hand for, all protestations aside. He held his ground as long as he could because of the mixed message. The clear message should have been, “Stand here in the rain until a cab or police cruiser drives by because you are NOT coming up to my place! Feel free to freeze to death.” That is a clear message, you not only left the door open, but invited him in. He knows he has three strikes and you walked him to first base. “It is difficult to understand what a woman wants.” That is all I want on my tombstone. I believe these were Gandhi’s last words. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/43 "2013-04-11T18:58:59Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Well, it’s not like [playing](https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=playing+hard+to+get&spell=1&sa=X&ei=6gRnUcHNN-nj4APziYCwDA&ved=0CCwQvwUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45107431,d.dmg&fp=7ba18c8bee7ed8c8&biw=1792&bih=727) hard to [get](http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=playing+hard+to+get+dating+advice&oq=playing+hard+to+get+dating+advice&gs_l=youtube.12...10638.12750.0.15446.14.9.0.5.5.0.81.569.9.9.0...0.0...1ac.1.eXhNgqxjFQ4) is an alien concept. > > You’re right though. These are all probably poor benchmarks to judge social situations. You know, this is part of the problem. There is a difference between “playing hard to get” and saying no. Unfortunately a lot of guys have rationalized that when a woman is saying no, she is “playing hard to get” which is just a sly way of saying “not right now but keep trying and soon I’ll say yes”. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/44 "2013-04-11T18:59:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, that’s the typical response from my male friends when they hear this story, most usually being more like “I would’ve punched the fucking guy out.” But he wasn’t threatening. Just didn’t have boundaries. And I was 19 and the situation was playing out more as an “interesting/funny story” in my head at the time, so I was more patient with my approach to him than I should have/would have been today. In retrospect, I should have been out of there. I now see that a lot of what I had been doing (accepting his drinks and compliments, while brushing them off, walking back to the bus stop with him past his house) might get interpreted as “being a tease.” > > Anyhow, back to MOL. I’m pretty sure they were making a joke about when people tell women, “Oh, c’mon, you know you liked it! You were flattered! You were practically asking for it!” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/45 "2013-04-11T19:00:05Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I’m pretty sure they were making a joke about when people tell women, “Oh, c’mon, you know you liked it! You were flattered! You were practically asking for it!” Oh, sorry. Yes, they did say it in a jocular manner. Left that out. Some were serious about punching the guy out, though. (And probably rightfully so.) ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/46 "2013-04-11T19:05:39Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > You know, this is part of the problem. There is a difference between “playing hard to get” and saying no. Unfortunately a lot of guys have rationalized that when a woman is saying no, she is “playing hard to get” which is just a sly way of saying “not right now but keep trying and soon I’ll say yes”. I agree. A good rule of thumb is simply “no means no.” On the other hand, it is often a fine line. People can be persuaded if you don’t give up and say/do the right things. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/47 "2013-04-11T19:08:15Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Every guy on the planet knows what this invitation is short hand for, all protestations aside. He held his ground as long as he could because of the mixed message. Huh. I’d have disagreed with the premise that every guy on the planet is a complete dumbass, but since you’re speaking for all of them I’ll take you at your word. I’m certain that **MOL** would have offered me the same courtesy if we’d spent the evening chatting and closing the bar down, and since I’m female I certainly wouldn’t have expected her to service me. I guess that makes all women on the planet rational, logical, infinitely wise and socially hip. Is there any point in reality where people will start actually, you know, \*listening and following cues \*rather than relying on Hollywood to dictate their actions? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/48 "2013-04-11T19:16:51Z")
As near as I can tell, guys only do this kind of stuff for one reason. Occasionally, it works. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/49 "2013-04-11T19:17:24Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It wasn’t traumatizing or anything, but it was creepy as fuck. Luckily, I didn’t feel physically threatened by the guy, so that made a big difference. I really should have been out of there much earlier, especially as he was buying me Long Islands, telling me I was a “handsome man” and offering to give me a massage (I made an off-hand remark about my legs being sore from running.) Yeah, shoulda picked up on those cues and made my exit earlier. Eh. I was 19. I just thought he was being harmless and playful. At any rate, I have a little more empathy for what women are talking about when they talk about this subject. I thought \ was oblivious to gay flirting but man lol 🙂 Seriously gay guys rambling chit chat, just come out and ask. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/50 "2013-04-11T19:24:26Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Every guy on the planet knows what this invitation is short hand for, all protestations aside. He held his ground as long as he could because of the mixed message. I do hope this is facetious. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/51 "2013-04-11T19:24:39Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > As near as I can tell, guys only do this kind of stuff for one reason. > > Occasionally, it works. It does work sometimes and that’s why guys do it. Some women send mixed signals so they can take some of the “blame” off themselves if they do sleep with the guy. Not saying MOL was doing that. She clearly wasn’t interested and was just being nice. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/52 "2013-04-11T19:25:10Z")
Sorry **MeanOldLady** , what was the question again? Anyway, how about a little action tonight? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/53 "2013-04-11T19:26:38Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > It does work sometimes and that’s why guys do it. Some women send mixed signals so they can take some of the “blame” off themselves if they do sleep with the guy. Not saying MOL was doing that. She clearly wasn’t interested and was just being nice. IANAG, but I think any guy who gambles on ignoring “no” is begging for trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/54 "2013-04-11T19:34:56Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > You’d be surprised how quickly a perfectly good guy will turn into a scumbag if he thinks there’s an even remote chance of him touching a labia. This isn’t some failing on her behalf for choosing the wrong kind of guy to go out with. > > Sorry you had to deal with that, **MOL**. What an utter douche. You did the guy a favor because he walked you home, you were up front about your intentions, and he still tried to force you into changing your mind. And people say nobody needs to be reminded that no means no anymore. :rolleyes: > > Yes, this is all her fault. I’m not saying that at all. It’s not her fault that this guy tried to touch her and kiss her and act completely inappropriately; not at all. But considering the context, she should have anticipated some mixing of signals when inviting a man up to her place at night after a date. Lots of men will ignore any and all red lights and focus on any _possible_ glimmer of hope and interpret that as a clear signal that they are “good to go”. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/55 "2013-04-11T19:40:33Z")
I’m going to take a wild guess that there may have been some alcohol involved in this scenario. Can we really expect a red blooded male, late at night, in the warm apartment of a known temptress, with booze coursing through his veins, to not at least make an attempt at reaching the promised land? I’m not excusing the guy’s actions but if he hadn’t at least taken a shot I would be required by section 34.6e of the man’s guidebook to rib him without mercy any time MOL’s name was ever mentioned in the future. Forever. It’s the law. Plus, MOL should have called the cab before the door was even closed. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/56 "2013-04-11T19:43:51Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Maybe because of stuff like [this.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcIvIladNnQ) > > I’m totally on your side **MOL.** I’m just trying to make a point. OMG, Jet Li…swoon Wait what were we talking about? ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/57 "2013-04-11T19:55:33Z")
I can say from experience this goes both ways. On a first date recently, I got invited to her apartment. She wants to show me some artwork in her bedroom. There are already candles burning in there. She sits on the bed, then kind of stretch/lays sideways on the bed while making serious eye contact. Clear signs right? I try for a kiss and get reprimanded for being presumptuous and I was only allowed up there for the stated reason. So I leave. And then the next day, I get an e-mail thanking me for not being a player and for not trying to sleep with her on the first date. It is the game players who make dating such a battlefield. But I am now hardened enough to not accept any invitations to anyone’s dwelling on a first date for any reason. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/58 "2013-04-11T20:01:00Z")
You may call yourself a MeanOldLady but I’m not seeing it here, to be honest. I would have phoned that cab for him with my keys still in my hand and my coat still on whilst he waited in the hall. I must be a much meaner old lady than I thought! ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/59 "2013-04-11T20:01:58Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > OMG, Jet Li…swoon > > Wait what were we talking about? I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/60 "2013-04-11T20:05:59Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Lots of men will ignore any and all red lights and focus on any _possible_ glimmer of hope and interpret that as a clear signal that they are “good to go”. \*Signals \* include twirling hair, holding eye contact, smiling, touching, and displaying body language that indicates an interest in getting physically closer to another person. The word "no or stating that sex is not going to happen is not a “signal”; it’s a fact that shouldn’t be tested. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=4)