# Guys, Y U no listen? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424 "2013-04-11T17:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/622 "2013-04-15T02:14:39Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Quick, **Ambivalid** , make your move! She showed something other than complete disgust for you, so I think we can all agree that is definitely a green light. I am saving myself for **pancakes**. We will live in a van and forcibly kiss women we grab off the street, but we promise never to put anything in their holes. We’re hoping for a Nobel. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/623 "2013-04-15T02:15:05Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > What is your method? Give me some tips. In the story that sparked all this BS, I had access to the woman ( **MOL** ), so I gave her my opinion. I had no access to the man of the story, so I couldn’t take him to task. In the bigger picture, how am I supposed to know when I am in the presence of such a man? How do I know when to take these men to task? Because the only time I hear of them is on a secondhand basis from stories of women who have had bad encounters with them. It’s not that I actively avoid such men, it’s just that my lifestyle doesn’t put me in contact with any. If you EVER hear a man make a joke about rape, interrupt him and tell him, “That isn’t funny. Jokes about rape aren’t funny, dude.” If you EVER hear a man tell a story about coercing a woman into sex (aka, raping her), stop him and say, “Whoa dude! That sounds like rape!! You shouldn’t do that” If you EVER hear a man making comments that uphold the rape culture, cut him off and say, “That’s not cool man, that’s the kind of stuff that leads to rape and sexual assault” If you do that, you will be an ally to women, and you will be truly helping end rape. It’s been shown in studies that men who rape believe that it’s common; that most men force sex on women. And the reason they think that is because when they tell their bros about the girl they forced into sex, everyone laughs and high fives, instead of becoming outraged. Because it’s scary to stand up to the culture we live in. But the men who do these things don’t listen to women, don’t talk to women, don’t even really see women as people. They will listen to you, a man, however. Use that power. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/624 "2013-04-15T02:43:01Z")
Part of the problem is that there is no way that a woman can be 100% safe, if she goes out in public at all. If she goes out in chador, there’s a possibility of sexual assault/rape. If she goes out with another person, male OR female, there’s a chance of assault or rape, either by her companion or by a gang of rapists. If she works outside the home, she can be sexually harassed or raped, sometimes with the coercion of getting a raise or keeping her job. So saying “women should be more careful” is just not thinking about the situation. We don’t know who is likely to sexually assault us…until it happens. Boyfriend’s/husband’s brother should be OK, right? Father or grandfather should be our protectors, right? Mother’s boyfriend/new husband should be interested in Mom, not her daughter, right? But all of those categories of men have rapists in them. I’d love a law that would require men to wear a big scarlet R or SA on their foreheads, that they could not cover up. It’s not going to happen. Women have been told, and told, and told to be careful. There’s not much more that we can do, and still be socially active, unless we want to clutch a can of pepper spray in our hands at all times. And many men seem to take offense at that. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/625 "2013-04-15T03:05:31Z")
I would be totally with the onus put on us guys to not be not just rapist; but not even be potential rapists, instead of on women to somehow “take responsibility” for allowing one indistinguishable man over another into her home. In fact, I propose us guys should submitt to regular [plethysmography](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_plethysmograph#section_3). We’d have a gauge rigged at the base of our todgers, listen to horrific court transcripts of rapes, and if we swelled in the least we’d be denied our ficky-fick certificates. This in and of itself makes me no more desirable as a sex partner than I already am, of course. But good men would endure the indignity if it prevented even one date-rape. And for my own angle, I’d benefit from the competition to be eliminated of those guys who’d fail the test; since many of them may very well have better hair, jobs, swerve, etc. than me. Worse case scenario is it narrows milady’s choice between losers like me and BOB in the bedside drawer. We can both live with that. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/626 "2013-04-15T03:14:31Z")
Well late to the party as usual, the guy sounds like a dick and there are plenty of them out there. I would have taken MOL at her word and used the phone hoping for another date, first date sex is never that good anyway. On the issue of whether she did the right or wrong thing only she was there to make that call none of us were and on the surface it sounds like she was trying to do the right thing but alas the guy was a dick. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/627 "2013-04-15T04:09:02Z")
I think we could spend a lot of time discussing the minutiae of what is right and wrong in a relationship, but we would be better off looking at the big picture. What can we do to prevent sexual assault and rape? This thread and the other one have already got out of hand. Should we take this over to Great Debates? I have a post already made but if somebody else wants to start it, I’m fine with that. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/628 "2013-04-15T04:23:45Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > What can we do to prevent sexual assault and rape? Well, my step 1 has always been by not assaulting or raping people. It turns out that if that’s your first step, it’s also your last. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/629 "2013-04-15T04:31:40Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I think we could spend a lot of time discussing the minutiae of what is right and wrong in a relationship, but we would be better off looking at the big picture. What can we do to prevent sexual assault and rape? > > This thread and the other one have already got out of hand. Should we take this over to Great Debates? I have a post already made but if somebody else wants to start it, I’m fine with that. I don’t feel that we can add anything to the discussion that isn’t already happening here. A discussion of body language, signals, and the social gymnastics women have to go through in order to enjoy sex with the fewest repercussions might be timely, but I’m kind of burned out, and probably have little to contribute because I’m mystified by all these claims that no is in any way ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/630 "2013-04-15T04:32:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Well, my step 1 has always been by not assaulting or raping people. It turns out that if that’s your first step, it’s also your last. Well, of course. Not everyone thinks that way though which should be pretty obvious. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/631 "2013-04-15T04:44:17Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Well, of course. Not everyone thinks that way though which should be pretty obvious. Yes, we’re well aware that some people want to rape other people. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyMac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@JohnnyMac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyMac)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/632 "2013-04-15T08:15:19Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I think we could spend a lot of time discussing the minutiae of what is right and wrong in a relationship, but we would be better off looking at the big picture. What can we do to prevent sexual assault and rape? > > This thread and the other one have already got out of hand. Should we take this over to Great Debates? I have a post already made but if somebody else wants to start it, I’m fine with that. Please, **panaccione** , will you stop ignoring the fact that people here _are_ giving their opinions on what we can do to prevent it: > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > If you EVER hear a man make a joke about rape, interrupt him and tell him, “That isn’t funny. Jokes about rape aren’t funny, dude.” > > If you EVER hear a man tell a story about coercing a woman into sex (aka, raping her), stop him and say, “Whoa dude! That sounds like rape!! You shouldn’t do that” > > If you EVER hear a man making comments that uphold the rape culture, cut him off and say, “That’s not cool man, that’s the kind of stuff that leads to rape and sexual assault” > > If you do that, you will be an ally to women, and you will be truly helping end rape. It’s been shown in studies that men who rape believe that it’s common; that most men force sex on women. And the reason they think that is because when they tell their bros about the girl they forced into sex, everyone laughs and high fives, instead of becoming outraged. Because it’s scary to stand up to the culture we live in. > > But the men who do these things don’t listen to women, don’t talk to women, don’t even really see women as people. They will listen to you, a man, however. Use that power. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/633 "2013-04-15T14:39:49Z")
I wanted to respond to one of **Shakes** ’s comment here versus in ATMB where it was turning into a thread hijack: > [@Misogyny on board](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misogyny-on-board/655617/169): > > The point is, I’d feel really uncomfortable accusing someone of rape based on a “gut” feeling. > > That’s fucked up. Whether you realize it or not, you’ve articulated a very integral part of the uncertainty women have when faced with men who are acting sexually aggressive towards them. Gut feeling says he might rape me, but it’s a terrible thing to assume a person you’ve been friendly with might do such a thing. If your gut is wrong and you kick him out or get away from him anyway, you’ve just killed the relationship, as well as the possiblilty of word getting out about what a psycho bitch you are, accusing a guy of rape before he even touches you. Even if he HAD intended to have sex with you, there’s those guys who are going to be pissed off that you would accuse him of such a thing, because hey, he was just trying to convince you of what you KNOW you really wanted, babe. If your gut is right, and you don’t act on it, you get raped. Possibly violently, if you don’t “give in.” And yes, it’s fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/634 "2013-04-15T15:25:11Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > I wanted to respond to one of **Shakes** ’s comment here versus in ATMB where it was turning into a thread hijack: > > Whether you realize it or not, you’ve articulated a very integral part of the uncertainty women have when faced with men who are acting sexually aggressive towards them. > > Gut feeling says he might rape me, but it’s a terrible thing to assume a person you’ve been friendly with might do such a thing. If your gut is wrong and you kick him out or get away from him anyway, you’ve just killed the relationship, as well as the possiblilty of word getting out about what a psycho bitch you are, accusing a guy of rape before he even touches you. Even if he HAD intended to have sex with you, there’s those guys who are going to be pissed off that you would accuse him of such a thing, because hey, he was just trying to convince you of what you KNOW you really wanted, babe. > > If your gut is right, and you don’t act on it, you get raped. Possibly violently, if you don’t “give in.” > And yes, it’s fucked up. THIS. A million times, THIS. Jesus, I’ve never been triggered by an online quote before. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/635 "2013-04-15T15:30:06Z")
Posting this is probably a mistake, but what the hell. I have been following this thread and all of the others related since my role in the original. I got some heat for my comments and I deserved it. I do think some of my comments were taken the wrong way, but I stand by what I said. If I didn’t articulate them clearly, it’s my fault. Anyway, the point here is to apologize for being an ass. I really am not a sexist asshole. And a lot of the comments in these threads have got me reconsidering some of my existing opinions and attitudes. That’s all. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/636 "2013-04-15T16:16:44Z")
MeanOldLady should’ve just broke the dudes femur with a quick Chuck Norris HA-RAW! to his leg section. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > THIS. > > A million times, THIS. > > Jesus, I’ve never been triggered by an online quote before. Same here. My gut told me to sell my Microsoft shares at $17.35 but I didn’t listen and got raped. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/637 "2013-04-15T16:18:58Z")
n/m ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/638 "2013-04-15T16:40:23Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Posting this is probably a mistake, but what the hell. I have been following this thread and all of the others related since my role in the original. I got some heat for my comments and I deserved it. I do think some of my comments were taken the wrong way, but I stand by what I said. If I didn’t articulate them clearly, it’s my fault. > > Anyway, the point here is to apologize for being an ass. I really am not a sexist asshole. And a lot of the comments in these threads have got me reconsidering some of my existing opinions and attitudes. That’s all. Carry on. A mistake? Hell, I think your post here is the best we could hope for after a clusterfuck like that. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/639 "2013-04-15T17:08:32Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > THIS. > > A million times, THIS. > > Jesus, I’ve never been triggered by an online quote before. Bitch or victim. Make the wrong choice and take the blame. I don’t think it can be really understood how much of our lives are run around this decision, how often women make it, or what million different clues go into making it, most of which you arent even aware of. From how to act when some guy appears to be following you in the parking lot to how you behave when working late with a male colleague, if you even choose to do so. This isn’t just dates or social events. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/640 "2013-04-15T17:08:53Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > MeanOldLady should’ve just broke the dudes femur with a quick Chuck Norris HA-RAW! to his leg section. > > Same here. My gut told me to sell my Microsoft shares at $17.35 but I didn’t listen and got raped. ☹ Hahahahahaha, sexual assault is _hilarious_! Isn’t it wonderful that we can laugh about things that will never, ever happen to us? I, for one, make sure to make jokes about honor-killings and FGM on at least a weekly basis. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/641 "2013-04-15T17:10:43Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Anyway, the point here is to apologize for being an ass. I really am not a sexist asshole. And a lot of the comments in these threads have got me reconsidering some of my existing opinions and attitudes. That’s all. Carry on. I can’t speak for everyone of course, but I appreciate you apologizing and reconsidering your opinions. Seriously, that’s awesome that a little good could come out of this clusterfuck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=33)