# Guys, Y U no listen? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424 "2013-04-11T17:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/61 "2013-04-11T20:07:06Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > As near as I can tell, guys only do this kind of stuff for one reason. > > Occasionally, it works. Yeah, I mean if you don’t care that you’re getting your load off with a woman who actually isn’t interested or enjoying it but relented because you have persistence and wore her down, then yes, it works. I think sex with willing partners is the most fun, but I suppose I’ve never experienced the other kind. I’ll take your word for it. > [@shiftless](#): > > I’m going to take a wild guess that there may have been some alcohol involved in this scenario. Can we really expect a red blooded male, late at night, in the warm apartment of a known temptress, with booze coursing through his veins, to not at least make an attempt at reaching the promised land? I’m not excusing the guy’s actions but if he hadn’t at least taken a shot I would be required by section 34.6e of the man’s guidebook to rib him without mercy any time MOL’s name was ever mentioned in the future. Forever. It’s the law. > > Plus, MOL should have called the cab before the door was even closed. I thought you were joking at first, but oh my god, you’re serious. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/62 "2013-04-11T20:08:03Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > It is the game players who make dating such a battlefield. But I am now hardened enough to not accept any invitations to anyone’s dwelling on a first date for any reason. You dodged a bullet with her. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/63 "2013-04-11T20:20:44Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Yeah, I mean if you don’t care that you’re getting your load off with a woman who actually isn’t interested or enjoying it but relented because you have persistence and wore her down, then yes, it works. I think sex with willing partners is the most fun, but I suppose I’ve never experienced the other kind. I’ll take your word for it. I speak as an observer, not a participant. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/64 "2013-04-11T20:48:40Z")
**MOL** , I do not think you did anything wrong. No means no, and it is 100% on him. However, the moment you invited him into your home (the green light), decision-making moved from his head to his other head (the Decision Interest Center and Knowledgebase - AKA D.I.C.K). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/65 "2013-04-11T20:54:32Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > After about 10 minutes of this, I say to him “You should call a cab now.” He pretends as if the idea had somehow slipped his mind (:rolleyes:), then goes back to what he was doing before, which was flirting with me and not calling the fucking taxi. Then he starts trying to kiss me, I back away, he keeps trying, then I make with an extremely bitchy “NO.” And then he looks irritated! With me! So I says to him, “Um, I thought I made it pretty clear that inviting you here was only so that you didn’t have to stand outside in the rain. I made a point of painstakingly disabusing you of the notion that anything --anything at all-- would happen other than you staying dry while you wait for a ride.” Come on, man. So he says, “If you want to tell me to get lost, just say so.” Wow, this is the point it should have been “Get the fuck out now, or I won’t be calling a cab, I’ll be calling the cops.” Serious douchebag. And I thought you were supposed to be mean? 😉 > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > If you’re looking for “no sex before marriage \<3” types, churches pretty much can’t be beat for this. Wow, she does not wish to sleep with this particular guy, and you conclude she’s a “no sex before marriage” type? > [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Every guy on the planet knows what this invitation is short hand for, all protestations aside. He held his ground as long as he could because of the mixed message. Nonsense, this guy totally understands that message. Of course, I’m also the clueless type. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/66 "2013-04-11T20:54:56Z")
Would it have killed you to give him a handy? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/67 "2013-04-11T21:03:06Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > However, the moment you invited him into your home (the green light), decision-making moved from his head to his other head (the Decision Interest Center and Knowledgebase - AKA D.I.C.K). 😃 Right?! Silly girl, everybody knows that men are incapable of controlling themselves ones a little blood flows to their penis! All rational decision making is out the door! Poor guy just couldn’t help it! It was beyond his control, ya know? Seriously, how men don’t get more pissed about statements like the quoted text is beyond me. This is the male equivalent of the old, “Oh, she’s on her period, she can’t control her emotions!” dismissive sexism nonsense. Or the bumbling, helpless dad meme in so many commercials. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/68 "2013-04-11T21:07:32Z")
> [@Ms.Pumpkin](#): > > What a jerk. Buuuut, I think you took the niceness thing a little too far by sitting on the couch with him for 10 mins. Yeah, I was way too nice to him. The very first move he put on me should have been responded to with “Get out. Weather be damned. I don’t care about your comfort anymore.” But you know, it’s one of those things where you’re trying to be nice to someone, then in hindsight you realize “Fuck nice.” > [@Shodan](#): > > So you admit you were coming on to him. You got me! I should not have worn my seduction socks. > [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > “It is difficult to understand what a woman wants.” > > That is all I want on my tombstone. I believe these were Gandhi’s last words. I know, right? How can anyone possibly tell what a woman wants? By listening to her? She said no, but what does she really mean? Women speak in such mysterious code! > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > You know, this is part of the problem. There is a difference between “playing hard to get” and saying no. Unfortunately a lot of guys have rationalized that when a woman is saying no, she is “playing hard to get” which is just a sly way of saying “not right now but keep trying and soon I’ll say yes”. Exactly this. Playing hard to get is making someone wait for a kiss, flirting a lot without giving a definitive sign of interest, or something like that. Saying no repeatedly isn’t “hard to get.” It’s a no. No means no, for fuck’s sake. > [@shiftless](#): > > Can we really expect a red blooded male, late at night, in the warm apartment of a known temptress, with booze coursing through his veins, to not at least make an attempt at reaching the promised land? Even if you are the kind of clown who will try something after being very explicitly told that it ain’t going down, how many times would you need to be very clearly refused before you stop? If the answer is more than once, I have some cyanide that you might find useful. > [@xizor](#): > > Clear signs right? I try for a kiss and get reprimanded for being presumptuous and I was only allowed up there for the stated reason. So I leave. What? Somebody said no and then you stopped? What kind of man are you?! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/69 "2013-04-11T21:13:23Z")
I wouldn’t defend his behavior in either case, but I would’ve at least understood his having the wrong impression at first – except **MOL** said she painstakingly prepped him beforehand not to expect anything. Doesn’t sound like there was any possibility of mixed signals. Guy was a moron. No, a _MORAN_. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/70 "2013-04-11T21:17:13Z")
He sounds like a dick. Good riddance. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/71 "2013-04-11T21:22:31Z")
Fickle bitch. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/72 "2013-04-11T21:24:47Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Exactly this. Playing hard to get is making someone wait for a kiss, flirting a lot without giving a definitive sign of interest, or something like that. **Saying no repeatedly isn’t “hard to get.” It’s a no. No means no, for fuck’s sake**. Bolding mine. I don’t think anyone’s denying that. Certainly, not me. However, the whole “playing hard to get” thing is a bit ambiguous. In other words, making someone “wait” for a kiss is implying a “No.” So, I guess men should just stop any and all attempts right then and there. I mean why is it okay for women to play hard to get, but when men are persistent there is a problem? I get there’s varying degree’s to this but certainly you can see how these things can be confusing. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/73 "2013-04-11T21:28:01Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What? Somebody said no and then you stopped? What kind of man are you?! The still single kind ☹ ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/74 "2013-04-11T21:28:38Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I wouldn’t defend his behavior in either case, but I would’ve at least understood his having the wrong impression at first – except **MOL** said she painstakingly prepped him beforehand not to expect anything. Doesn’t sound like there was any possibility of mixed signals. Guy was a moron. No, a _MORAN_. Right. I’ve ignored the posts about mixed signals because they’re irritatingly stupid. Again, I get that an invitation to someone’s apt is generally a sign of interest. **Generally.** But when someone takes the time to point out that while this is often the understanding, this is very much capital-N Not happening now, I’m not interested, and I’m only inviting you in because I’d rather you not stand in the rain without an umbrella for 15 min, it should be clear that nothing’s happening. It’s like, dude, I just figured the nice thing to do is to let you hang in a dry apt while you wait, then you have to get out. He said he understood and thanked me for the kindness. Easy peasy lemon squeezy, right? WRONG! Get a brain, morans! > [@panaccione](#): > > However, the whole “playing hard to get” thing is a bit ambiguous. > > In other words, making someone “wait” for a kiss is implying a “No.” So, I guess men should just stop any and all attempts right then and there. > > I mean why is it okay for women to play hard to get, but when men are persistent there is a problem? I get there’s varying degree’s to this but certainly you can see how these things can be confusing. We’re not talking about an implied no here. We’re talking about an explicit no. When someone explicitly says no, then yes, you should just stop any and all attempts right then and there. If you have further questions, let me know. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/75 "2013-04-11T21:32:19Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I mean why is it okay for women to play hard to get, but when men are persistent there is a problem? I get there’s varying degree’s to this but certainly you can see how these things can be confusing. Because when you are persistent in the face of an actual “no”, things get less ambiguous and a lot more rapey. I get how there’s varying degrees to “no”, like “No, thank you”, “No, please leave”, “No, like I said before”, and “No, get the fuck out you persistent asshole”, but sometimes you just need to take “no” at face value and not presume that she’s playing hard to get. The difference between a “no” and “playing hard to get” is that when someone is playing hard to get, and you leave, _they come after you_, not that they give it up in the face of unrelenting pressure. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/76 "2013-04-11T21:37:18Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > In other words, making someone “wait” for a kiss is implying a “No.” So, I guess men should just stop any and all attempts right then and there. > > I mean why is it okay for women to play hard to get, but when men are persistent there is a problem? I get there’s varying degree’s to this but certainly you can see how these things can be confusing. We’re on a date, it’s going awesome. You walk me to my car, we say our goodbyes, hug, and you reach in for a mouth on mouth kiss. I turn my head at the last second so you only get a peck on the cheek. I say, “Don’t get me wrong, you’re awesome and I had the BEST time, but I don’t kiss on the first date or two. Maybe if we go out again ;).” That’s playing coy. Hard to get. Wanting to be chased. Whatever you want to call it. Let’s say we’re on a second or third date, watching a movie on your couch or at my place. We’re snuggling. We’re kissing. We’re doing all that cutesie shit. I pause and say, “Look, I just want to be upfront: I’m totally down for snuggling and kissing, but I’m not looking to have sex tonight.” One of two things can happen now. Either you can agree and be a decent human being, which leads to many more hours of snuggling and kissing and enjoying each other’s company, but no sex. Or you can be that douchebag who then spends the next two hours trying to direct my hand to your erection. That scenario? That’s not playing hard to get. That’s not being coy or wanting you to convince me to fuck you. That’s me directly telling you-- using my grown up words-- what I want. If you choose to ignore that and not respect me enough to honor my wishes, you’re kind of the worst. Protip: the first guy usually gets laid on the next date— the second doesn’t even get another date. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/77 "2013-04-11T21:37:36Z")
Good points. I guess it’s not really that ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/78 "2013-04-11T21:39:12Z")
**Diosa** you said you weren’t going to tell everyone about our date last weekend. ---
**Author:** ![LouLou7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LouLou7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouLou7)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/79 "2013-04-11T21:41:02Z")
Wow, you must be a smokin hot old lady. Not only did you NOT give mixed signals, you preemptively said NO before the subject came up. And yet…he still couldn’t resist your charms. I am in awe of you. Is this a gift you were born with, or did you develop it over years of experience with horny men? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424/80 "2013-04-11T21:41:19Z")
**ladyfoxfyre** , maybe if you’d stop trying to push my head down to your crotch while we’re trying to watch Star Wars I wouldn’t have to put you on blast. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-y-u-no-listen/655424.md?page=5)