# Guys You'd LIKE to Support for the Hall of Fame... but Can't **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 4, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969 "2003-12-04T16:40:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/41 "2003-12-09T20:36:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yookeroo \* > \*\*Never said anything about him being a swell guy. Nor did I say he was misunderstood by sportswriters. He can be ana sshole to sportswriters, so they probably don’t feel the need to fawn. > > I never said anything about the intellifence of his teammates. Does anyone really need a cite that sportwriters are stupid?\*\* Yeah, I’d like one. Not an example of what you think is stupid behavior, but a cite that actually says they’re stupid. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/42 "2003-12-10T02:24:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NDP \* > \*\*I have a couple from the Oakland A’s teams of the 70’s: > > Bert Campaneris - the most underrated member of the A’s teams that won three straight World Championships. Solid shortstop who had 2219 hits, excellent speed (649 stolen bases), and could deliver in clutch situations (e.g., the 1973 World Series where he could’ve arguably been selected the MVP in place of Reggie Jackson). But does he belong in the Hall of Fame? Probably not. > > Vida Blue - He had that one HUGE year in 1971 (24 victories, 301 K’s, a 1.82 ERA, the Cy Young Award, and the MVP), two other seasons of 20+ wins, 209 lifetime victories but problems with controlled substances (specifically cocaine) derailed what look liked a sure-fire HOF career. \*\* Well said. Blue was second only to Steve Carlton in wins for a left hander from 1971-1981. He was headed for 250+ wins before his drug use and prison sentence derailed his career. He did have a couple of .500 years with the Giants after he cleaned up. But too little, too late. A few other Bay Area guys that I’d like to see go, but they don’t really have all that’s needed – Bobby Bonds, Will Clark, Dave Stewart, Jose Canseco, Matt Williams. And I’d like to support Bert Blyleven, but he has too many losses, too many lackluster seasons, and only one 20 win season. Steve Garvey too. A nice 10-12 year run, but not enough for the HoF. He seemed to want to cultivate an image, but he had a genuine side too. He was very supportive of Glenn Burke (gay player in the late 70s), and he was the only player to show up to Allen Wiggens funeral (AIDS realated death). ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/43 "2003-12-10T06:47:27Z")
Bert Blyleven deserves to be in. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Yeah, I’d like one. Not an example of what you think is stupid behavior, but a cite that actually says they’re stupid. \*\* :rolleyes: [OK](http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=avn4ua02mca%40drn.newsguy.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain) ---
**Author:** ![Rainbowthief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Rainbowthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rainbowthief)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/44 "2003-12-10T09:26:21Z")
The Hall of Fame is for great players. Blyleven was a good pitcher, but never great. He’s not even close, IMO. I’d rather see Dwight Gooden, Brett Saberhagen, Frank Viola or Orel Herchiser in the hall before him. At least each of them was great for a brief period of time and in Gooden’s case, he was the possibly the best for a while. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/45 "2003-12-10T11:22:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yookeroo \* > \*\*Bert Blyleven deserves to be in. > > :rolleyes: [OK](http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=avn4ua02mca%40drn.newsguy.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain) \*\* A cite of a Google group. Well, that’s certainly beyond reproach. I thank you for your meticulous researching abilities. Was there something of value in that cite that you specifically wanted me to see? It just looks like fans discussing baseball on a newsgroup. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/46 "2003-12-10T14:01:28Z")
**Jim Rice** and **Dave Kingman**. I like guys that tell the media to go ‘f’ themselves. I hope **Albert Belle** gets in too. I hope **Cal Ripken** does not get in. Here’s a guy that is heralded for having 400 home runs, but did it in 11,0000 at bats. Compare to a guy like **Dale Murphy** who won’t get in, that had 398 in like 7500 at bats, but people still think of Rip as a better hitter. Yeah, shortstops with .276 life time averages do get in, but they’re not the “locks” that Ripken is. Because of what? He showed up to play baseball every single day. And NO sensible person anywhere thinks the guy is in the same class as **Lou Gehrig**. At the end of his streak, he was putting his own interests ahead of those of the team in a way normally reserved for the **Terrell Owens** and **Barry Bonds** of the world. Besides eating up money that he did not deserve because he knew he had the O’s over a barrel, and not allowing developing players onto the field in down years for the Orioles. These actions were indubitably detrimental to the Orioles organization, and taken together with his somewhat average numbers point towards him being marginal, at best, for the hall. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/47 "2003-12-10T14:12:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trunk \* > \*\*I hope **Cal Ripken** does not get in. Here’s a guy that is heralded for having 400 home runs, but did it in 11,0000 at bats. Compare to a guy like **Dale Murphy** who won’t get in, that had 398 in like 7500 at bats, but people still think of Rip as a better hitter. > > Yeah, shortstops with .276 life time averages do get in, but they’re not the “locks” that Ripken is. Because of what? He showed up to play baseball every single day. > > And NO sensible person anywhere thinks the guy is in the same class as **Lou Gehrig**. > > \*\* Huh. I’m pretty sure he’s not heralded for having 400 home runs. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else, but I believe there are other feats for which he’s much better known. He was a middle infielder, save those last years when he played some 3B. He’ll always be remembered as a shortstop. Shortstops don’t hit many HR as a rule, with the exception being the so-called new generation of SSs, like A-Rod and such. I can’t see the comparison of Ripken and Murphy, considering they played wildly different positions and fulfilled wildly different roles on their teams. Both were, however, quiet leaders who led their teams with absolute class. Can you provide an example of a classless act by Ripken, other than the dubious “he played everyday at the expense of his team” tripe? ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/48 "2003-12-10T14:40:19Z")
Well, I never called him classless. But you want an example? I’m a little fuzzy on the details, but it was an Os-Yanks postseason game that went about 15 innings. He pouted on the bench and complained after being pinch-run for in the 8th. Yeah, the O’s coaches got the message after that: You don’t tell Cal Ripken Jr. what to do. And, what’s the streak, really? It’s a completely selfish individual achievement. It’s not a team goal. It’s arguably detrimental to the team. But the fans love him, the press loves him, MLB loves him, so it’s hands off, brother. In his last 2 full seasons, the O’s were paying, what, 11M a year for a third baseman with limited range who was hitting .270, getting 70 RBI, and who absolutely could not be traded or benched. While Ryan Minor was still waiting for his shot to be in the bigs. Basically what you’re looking at is a guy who is a LOCK for the hall because he put up average shortstop numbers for a long time. The Os could have had 3 shortstops over the same period of time, gotten similar production, and paid out a lot less money, and had a lot more flexibility. He got bigger than the game, and he knew it, and used it. Yeah, maybe he should be in, but just looking at the numbers, he’s no lock. [and there’s still the little story about him being in custody for smacking Kelly around the night the Os “couldn’t” turn the lights on.] ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/49 "2003-12-10T15:06:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trunk \* > Well, I never called him classless. But you want an example? I’m a little fuzzy on the details, but it was an Os-Yanks postseason game that went about 15 innings. He pouted on the bench and complained after being pinch-run for in the 8th. No, you didn’t use the word “classless” - you merely said he put his own interests ahead of those of the team. I would suggest that nearly every star player who has been pinch-hit for at some point has not been too pleased with it. Has nothing to do with him being selfish or classless and everything to do with him being human. Now, if he had a reputation for doing that, then he’d be considered a selfish player. He did not have that reputation. > [@](#): > > And, what’s the streak, really? It’s a completely selfish individual achievement. It’s not a team goal. It’s arguably detrimental to the team. But the fans love him, the press loves him, MLB loves him, so it’s hands off, brother. Is it? Did he play poorly for all of those games? Was he really bringing down the team for those 2,000+ games? It’s detrimental if he’s consistently playing poorly. He had stretches when he didn’t play as well as he had played in the past, but poorly? No. In addition, it’s the job of the manager to bench a player whom he feels isn’t playing up to snuff. If Ripken were playing badly enough that he deserved to be benched - and I’m not saying he wasn’t - then it’s the manager’s duty to bench him. One big reason he wasn’t benched was the streak, but it’s not totally his fault. The managers he had were as beholden to it as he was. Another reason, though, was that the Orioles had no justifiable alternative. They tried Ryan Minor there, and that fizzled. They had no one else to go to, so Cal stayed in. Again, not really his fault. > [@](#): > > In his last 2 full seasons, the O’s were paying, what, 11M a year for a third baseman with limited range who was hitting .270, getting 70 RBI, and who absolutely could not be traded or benched. While Ryan Minor was still waiting for his shot to be in the bigs. His salary is irrelevant - in fact, when he signed the contract, it was thought that the O’s received a bit of a discount. Why don’t you give him credit for that? He could have pimped out his services to any number of clubs, many of whom would have paid much, much more. It was a spending market then. Besides, the player’s union has a lot to say about salaries. If your contract is up, you will get more money than you did in the last contract. Their rules strongly discourage guys playing for less, even if they really want to (i.e., love of the game). > [@](#): > > Basically what you’re looking at is a guy who is a LOCK for the hall because he put up average shortstop numbers for a long time. The Os could have had 3 shortstops over the same period of time, gotten similar production, and paid out a lot less money, and had a lot more flexibility. I dunno. They haven’t been too good at player development for a while. What makes you so sure they would find three SSs of equal or better combined talent than Ripken? Besides, no one forced Angelos to pay Ripken $11 million. You should shift some of that blame to your crappy owner. > [@](#): > > He got bigger than the game, and he knew it, and used it. Like hell he did. He’s done commercials, but have you ever seen him behaving like he was bigger than the game? His entire rep is that he’s a pretty humble guy. > [@](#): > > Yeah, maybe he should be in, but just looking at the numbers, he’s no lock. You just said he **was** a lock. > [@](#): > > [and there’s still the little story about him being in custody for smacking Kelly around the night the Os “couldn’t” turn the lights on.] Cite? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/50 "2003-12-10T15:41:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rainbowthief \* > **I still think Bernie Williams belongs. He’s won Gold Gloves, batting titles, has played on World Series winners and has played well in the postseason (former ALCS MVP). He’s never won an AL MVP award, but the bulk of those have gone to big power hitters lately (Ken Griffey, Juan Gonzales, Alex Rodriguez, Jason Giambi, etc). One Hall of Famer that he compares well with is Al Kaline of the Tigers… Kaline obviously has played considerably longer than Williams, but Bernie’s career is not over yet.** Okay, but the difference between the two is really, really huge. Kaline has 1200 games more than Bernie at this point - about seven and a half full seasons. Bernie is 34; he doesn’t have a very good chance of playing another 1200 games, and the odds he’ll play 1200 more games _just as well as he played his first 1656_ is maybe one in a thousand, at most. He’s almost certainly not going to play that many games, and if he somehow does or even gets close I think we can safely say his performance will decline significantly from what it has been so far (which is pretty close to Kaline.) Williams won Gold Gloves, but so did Kaline; Williams played on many championship teams, but at least Kaline did win the World Series. Williams’s postseason performance has been a bit less than his regular season, and he hasn’t hit well in the World Series, so he doesn’t get a Reggiesque boost. If he plays as many games as Kaline, just as well, he’d be in, but right now he isn’t close and his decline in 2003 was worrisome. Right now he’s a lot closer to Reggie Smith than Al Kaline. > [@](#): > > Another guy I think deserves to be in Cooperstown is Keith Hernandez. He was far and away the best defensive player at his position during his career the way Ozzie Smith was among shortstops or Bill Mazeroski among outfielders. I agree with this; Hernandez is underrated. He had a short career, though, for a Hall of Famer (Don’t compare the number of seasons, compare the games played.) He wouldn’t be a bad choice. > [@](#): > > \*\*They’re in the Hall for their defensive greatness despite some anemic offensive numbers, yet Hernandez is punished for not hitting enough. Sure, first basemen are expected to hit, certainly more than shortstops, but Hernandez _did_ hit better than Smith and Mazeroski, _a lot_ better. Enough, in my opinion, to make up for the fact that he played a position that carries higher offensive expectations. \*\* I’m not sure you can just assume the GLOVES are equally valuable, though. I think Ozzie Smith really was more valuable with his glove than Keith, and Smith’s career was quite a bit longer - 23% longer, actually, by games played. That’s a big difference. Maz is a better comparison to Hernandez because their careers were about the same length. The thing is, you’re sort of assuming Smith and Maz are equal, but they aren’t. Smith was better - he was a better hitter and a vasty better baserunner over a much longer career. His peak was higher, too, for what that’s worth. People conflate them because they’re similar types of player, but Frank Robinson and Dante Bichette are similar types of player too and you wouldn’t say Dante is a Hall of Famer. Objectively speaking, Ozzie had a much better career. I think Ozzie was a sure-fire Hall of Famer; Maz was a really weak choice. Hernandez was better than Maz, IMHO, but I’m not sure about him being better than Ozzie. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/51 "2003-12-10T15:52:02Z")
No, he wasn’t bringing down the team for 2000+ games. BUT, I think his performance would have been better and the team’s performance would have been better if he had rested. However, I’m sure he was worried that with his career numbers he wouldn’t be considered one of the all time greats. So he got this individual “streak” attached to his name and now he’ll be remembered forever for just showing up and not getting injured. If he was as good as Lou Gehrig, it wouldn’t have been an issue. * * * I said he’s a lock because he’s mistakenly worshipped. I said he’s no lock if you just look at the numbers. That’s what I meant when I wrote “by just looking at the numbers.” * * * He’ll be a first-balloter. But look, if the guy had taken 1 day off every other year, it would be much more debatable about him getting in automatically. * * * Of course there’s no cite for the “Lights Out” story. The local cops kept it hush-hush because they love him too. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/52 "2003-12-10T15:56:27Z")
Isn’t it possible that there’s no cite because it didn’t happen? If you claim it did happen, then you need to either back up that claim or retract it. Stating that someone beats his wife is a serious charge, and it’s decidedly irresponsible to pass along innuendo for no greater purpose than to impugn the individual. Where did you hear of this? ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/53 "2003-12-10T16:29:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Isn’t it possible that there’s no cite because it didn’t happen? > \*\* Of course its possible. It’s also possible that because Cal Ripken is one of the richest men in the County and one of the most respected people in the state and had a streak going that the local authorities kept it quiet. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Where did you hear of this? \*\* The little man in my medicine cabinet. It’s exactly his purpose to pass along innuendo as a means to impugn Ripken. It’s too good a story not to. Seriously though, I didn’t cite it, and I threw it in **[parenthetically]** at the end of the post because I thought everyone just knew it to be a local legend based on rumor and innuendo. Sure, closer to when it happened, I had friends of friends of people who worked at the stadium who said there was no “engineering problem”. The story certainly made the rounds in the city in those following days, but really that’s as far as it got. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/54 "2003-12-10T16:39:31Z")
Not everyone here is in Maryland, let alone near Baltimore, so I’m sure it’s news to most people. Okay, so you’re basically saying it probably never happened. Thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/55 "2003-12-10T17:42:02Z")
[Busted.](http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/costner.htm) Still doesn’t mean he should be in the hall-of-fame. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/56 "2003-12-10T17:59:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trunk \* > \*\*No, he wasn’t bringing down the team for 2000+ games. BUT, I think his performance would have been better and the team’s performance would have been better if he had rested. > > However, I’m sure he was worried that with his career numbers he wouldn’t be considered one of the all time greats. So he got this individual “streak” attached to his name and now he’ll be remembered forever for just showing up and not getting injured. If he was as good as Lou Gehrig, it wouldn’t have been an issue.\*\* What does being as good as Lou Gehrig have to do with getting into the HALL OF FAME, though? Lou Gehrig is not a reasonable standard for induction. Look, you can argue that Ripken might have been better had he taken a few days off, and you might be right. You can also argue, with just as much truth, that Babe Ruth would have been better had he eaten fewer hot dogs, that Nolan Ryan would have been better if he hadn’t tried to blow every batter away on every pitch, that Ty Cobb would have been better if he hadn’t alienated everyone, and that Mickey Mantle would have been better if he’d laid off the Wild Turkey. But they’re all Hall of Famers. The issue is what the player ACTUALLY DID. Ripken’s actual performance is first-ballot Hall of Famer no matter how you slice it. As to the silly “he beat his wife” thing, when someone actually had an iota of evidence that happened, let us know. Until then it’s obviously an urban legend. > [@](#): > > He’ll be a first-balloter. But look, if the guy had taken 1 day off every other year, it would be much more debatable about him getting in automatically. No, it wouldn’t. **Even without the streak** his induction would be utterly guaranteed. It would be unprecedented for a player with Ripken’s qualifications to not be elected on the first ballot; 3,000 hits, two MVP Awards, Gold Gloves, All-Star appearances. Even with a few days off to break up the streak he’d have been elected quite easily. Robin Yount and Ozzie Smith, shortstops of the same era, were both elected on the first ballot and neither player was as good as Ripken. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/57 "2003-12-10T19:05:08Z")
Yount and Ozzie are good comparisons. Still, Yount was barely a first-timer and that was in a particularly generous year. It had the most ever first-timers (since the first one, I think) and Brett and Ryan received the 2nd and 4th highest percentages ever. Generous, IMO. (Ryan – one of my favorites ever, but I still don’t know about a guy with a lifetime .525 winning percentage being voted in so high. But, with the K’s and SO’s you gotta give it to him.) Further, you could easily name several players, no worse than Ripken, who didn’t get in first time. Still, I think the discrepancy between how good a player Rip is and how good a player he was perceived to be is vast. ---
**Author:** ![Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raymond_luxury_yacht/32/4099_2.png) [@Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raymond_Luxury_Yacht)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/58 "2003-12-10T19:40:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trunk \* > **Further, you could easily name several players, no worse than Ripken, who didn’t get in first time.** I’m sorry, **Trunk** , but I can’t for the life of me come up with a middle infielder with 3,000 hits who didn’t get in on the first ballot. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/59 "2003-12-10T19:55:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trunk \* > \*\*Further, you could easily name several players, no worse than Ripken, who didn’t get in first time… \*\* You got me on this one; I can’t think of any players of Ripken’s calibre who weren’t first ballot inductions under the modern voting rules. Under some of the old systems in the 40s and 50s, sure, but that’s not a valid comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969/60 "2003-12-10T21:09:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > **A cite of a Google group. Well, that’s certainly beyond reproach. I thank you for your meticulous researching abilities.** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\* > Was there something of value in that cite that you specifically wanted me to see? It just looks like fans discussing baseball on a newsgroup. \*\* Not really. You asked for a cite, so I gave you one. Since I have no idea what your point is here or what you’re looking for, I grabbed the first site I saw. I really don’t think that anyone has actually done a study on the intelligence of sportswriters, so I think your out of luck there. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trunk \* > \*\*Basically what you’re looking at is a guy who is a LOCK for the hall because he put up average shortstop numbers for a long time. \*\* You still talking about Ripken? The Streak may have been blown out of proportion and sportswriters may have been too in love with him, but there’s no way Ripken isn’t a deserving HOFer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guys-youd-like-to-support-for-the-hall-of-fame-but-cant/216969.md?page=4)