# GWB the worst President ever. This seals the debate. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278 "2008-09-26T03:42:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/1 "2008-09-26T03:42:18Z")
The US economy is facing a crisis unlike anything it has seen since 1929. We’re near the endgame of a presidential election. The guy in office for the last 7 1/2 years goes on national TV and almost admits that his administration has totally screwed things up and to correct the problem it will take measures of which he and his cronies are totally philosophically opposed. He’s drinking his poison in order to gain bi-partisan support. The NEXT DAY it’s not his opposition that is unraveling the plan IT’S HIS OWN PARTY! [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/business/26bailout.html?exprod=myyahoo](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/business/26bailout.html?exprod=myyahoo) Can it get any worse? This isn’t a lame duck, it’s a dead duck. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/2 "2008-09-26T03:48:15Z")
What a clusterfuck. I don’t even know what to say. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/3 "2008-09-26T03:54:24Z")
A lot of economists do not see the need for the bailout. It is not universally agreed upon. Some repubs reject it on grounds of philosophical differences. Bush is the worst for lots of reasons. Waging an expensive war while cutting taxes is a big part of this mess too. I can tell you how to save 12 million a month. Stop the stupid war now. We can not afford his stupidity. I am not sure there is a need . The use of fear is the Bush/neocon tactic to get their way. They lie about everything. How can anyone trust these guys now. ? Put 100 billion in until after the election. See if that helps . If not we can stop wasting money paying off the wealthy fools. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/4 "2008-09-26T03:57:11Z")
[http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/25/115925/299/175/610043](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/25/115925/299/175/610043) heres the head of the congressional budget office saying it could make things worse. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/5 "2008-09-26T04:03:12Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > A lot of economists do not see the need for the bailout. It is not universally agreed upon. Some repubs reject it on grounds of philosophical differences. > Bush is the worst for lots of reasons. Waging an expensive war while cutting taxes is a big part of this mess too. I can tell you how to save 12 million a month. Stop the stupid war now. We can not afford his stupidity. > I am not sure there is a need . The use of fear is the Bush/neocon tactic to get their way. They lie about everything. How can anyone trust these guys now. ? > Put 100 billion in until after the election. See if that helps . If not we can stop wasting money paying off the wealthy fools. I’m not disagreeing but the issue is about leadership. GWB is the President and under a dire crisis he can’t even speak for his own party. It’s evident why his own party didn’t want him or the VP at their own nominating convention. The OP is about the fact that he is absolutely the worst. Whether he is right or wrong, his lack of leadership is so apparent that he isn’t fit to sit at the exit aisle on a commercial airline. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/6 "2008-09-26T04:06:46Z")
Geeze. On the one hand, that’s pretty screwed up. On the other, I’ll just note that I tend to distrust anyone who’s passionate over work. If you’re getting down on your knees and begging, I don’t trust that you’re looking at the issues with a level head. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/7 "2008-09-26T04:09:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/25/115925/299/175/610043](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/25/115925/299/175/610043) heres the head of the congressional budget office saying it could make things worse. Yes, that’s good stuff. It probably explains Bush’s “deer in the headlights” look last night. The vibe that came through to me is that he was understating the magnitude of the problem. But back to the OP, it’s about Presidential leadership. His failure is so miserable that I can’t see anything that would support anything less than a grade of total disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/8 "2008-09-26T04:23:22Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > Yes, that’s good stuff. It probably explains Bush’s “deer in the headlights” look last night. The vibe that came through to me is that he was understating the magnitude of the problem. But back to the OP, it’s about Presidential leadership. His failure is so miserable that I can’t see anything that would support anything less than a grade of total disaster. Dunno, I’d point more to McCain than Bush. Whoever is the guy who everyone in the party would look to to decide which way to vote is, that’s the guy who screwed up. Bush is going out the door, so it’s the (potential) new guy’s job to step in and be the deciderer. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/9 "2008-09-26T04:26:25Z")
Don’t worry. If McCain wins, that will prove that Bush didn’t make any mistakes after all. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/10 "2008-09-26T05:11:18Z")
> [@Spartydog](#): > > The US economy is facing a crisis unlike anything it has seen since 1929. We’re near the endgame of a presidential election. The guy in office for the last 7 1/2 years goes on national TV and almost admits that his administration has totally screwed things up and to correct the problem it will take measures of which he and his cronies are totally philosophically opposed. He’s drinking his poison in order to gain bi-partisan support. > > The NEXT DAY it’s not his opposition that is unraveling the plan IT’S HIS OWN PARTY! > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/business/26bailout.html?exprod=myyahoo](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/business/26bailout.html?exprod=myyahoo) > > Can it get any worse? This isn’t a lame duck, it’s a dead duck. Are you saying he is doing a bad job of handling the crisis? Opposition from GOP is usually a sign that you’re doing something right. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/11 "2008-09-26T05:30:29Z")
Gee, it’s really too bad that Bush didn’t try and avert this. Oh wait, he did: > [@New York Times](#): > > The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago. > > Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry. > > The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios. > > The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt – is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates. > > ‘‘There is a general recognition that the supervisory system for housing-related government-sponsored enterprises neither has the tools, nor the stature, to deal effectively with the current size, complexity and importance of these enterprises,’’ Treasury Secretary John W. Snow told the House Financial Services Committee in an appearance with Housing Secretary Mel Martinez, who also backed the plan. So who opposed it? > [@same source](#): > > Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing. > > ‘‘These two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis,’’ said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ‘‘The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.’’ > > Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed. > > ‘‘I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,’’ Mr. Watt said. Your ire seems to me to be misplaced. Lord knows bush has fucked enough stuff up, there’s really no reason to blame him for something he tried to address but was prevented from doing so. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/12 "2008-09-26T05:35:52Z")
Poor George, his good intentions trampled under the hobnailed jackboots of Big Gay Barney. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/13 "2008-09-26T05:44:15Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Gee, it’s really too bad that Bush didn’t try and avert this. > Oh wait, he did: No he really did not, if he only had showed even half the effort to have his way like the way he did with Iraq, FISA and many other situations were he scared enough Democrats to follow his lead, then we would not be in this mess, there is also the annoying fact the Republicans controlled congress then. I do not see the democrats as innocent but I do think it is extremely silly to ignore that Republicans had the power to prevent this for the last 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/14 "2008-09-26T05:48:09Z")
Bush has fouled up everything he has touched. I presume that he and Paulson see a genuine crisis, and it seems to me that they are right. A lot of big financial institutions are going tits up in short order. And as I see it, it is the long deregulation sought by the likes of Friedman, Hayak, Reagan and Greenspan and their ilk till it was elevated to the point of religion. Their version of economic theory has always struck me as bullshit, it being based on the assumed rationality of individuals and groups. I know enough about human nature to know that any logical system based on the assumption that humans will act rationally to improve their interests is kidding itself. Reducing reserve requirements, a particular Greenspanesque shit for brains mantra led to overleveraging. Bush may in fact be sincere in requesting the bailout, but he sure as hell doesn’t understand it. I’m against a bailout that doesn’t get equities to back the government guarantees that protect the taxpayer. And I’m all for eliminating any company from consideration that doesn’t cut the top executive pay to companies that apply. If the execs are unwilling to make a modest personal sacrifice to a few million a year instead of hundreds of millions, they aren’t the kind of people I want to lend money to. Iaccoca cut his salary when he asked for a bailout. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/15 "2008-09-26T05:59:30Z")
Looks to me like he’s doing a pretty good job setting himself up as a scapegoat; from this point forward, anything McCain does right is going to look good in the eyes of Republicans. Bush’s career is over; he’s done. He’s just setting things up so McCain has the best shot he can get, and this is it. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/16 "2008-09-26T06:38:08Z")
Yeah. This is _it._ I mean, there’s nothing more he can do. He’s trying to set up Johnny Mac with a nice white house, just like his daddy did for him, and this is it. This is all Bush has got. I mean, shit, what else did we expect from the Bailout Buddy? How many businesses did he run into the ground, so his daddy could fix things up for him? Now the nice agreement that Bush had all wrapped up in a bow is falling apart on him. Fission accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/17 "2008-09-26T06:52:38Z")
From [The Daily Show’s](http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=185196&title=President-Bush's-Legacy) John Oliver: "Look, we all know he’ll never be ranked as the _best_ president, but he could still, if he works hard enough, be . . . " . . . the _last_." ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/18 "2008-09-26T07:00:05Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Fission accomplished. No, dude, it’s Fission Mailed. Haven’t you ever played Metal Gear Solid? Don’t you remember the fight with Psycho Mantis? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/19 "2008-09-26T07:26:18Z")
IMO he’s the worst not because he’s the most malicious or anything, but just by timing. No other bad president has had the opportunity to screw with 300,000,000+ Americans and 6.5x10[sup]9[/sup] world citizens. Imagine if John Adams got elected this fall and signed the Alien and Sedition Acts next year. People would be longing for Bush. The stuff we’re in right now is bad but I don’t see the next decade being anything like the 1930s. We’ll recover from this sooner than anybody thinks, I think. One thing I do find funny is that everyone who said the economy would go in the shitter and gas prices would go through the roof if Bush got elected was called a nutjob. Look at us now, heh. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278/20 "2008-09-26T07:27:49Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > One thing I do find funny is that everyone who said the economy would go in the shitter and gas prices would go through the roof if Bush got elected was called a nutjob. Look at us now, heh. Really? I don’t remember that. Back in 2000 we were still in the dot com boom. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwb-the-worst-president-ever-this-seals-the-debate/465278.md?page=2)