# GWB's Strangely Passive Presidency **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwbs-strangely-passive-presidency/239972 "2004-04-14T15:01:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwbs-strangely-passive-presidency/239972/81 "2004-04-19T18:33:16Z")
> [@braintree](#): > > I mean, Jesus, exactly how incestuous does this guy actually have to get with our true attackers before the rest of the country intelligently allows foam to start coming out of its mouth? \ But Bill Clinton had SEX with an INTERN! :eek: And John Kerry’s a DEMOCRAT! :mad: \ ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwbs-strangely-passive-presidency/239972/82 "2004-04-19T19:56:13Z")
Well guys keep to the subject ! I love Bush bashing too. We’re here to discuss Rummies reforms. > [@](#): > > He was totally, unlisteningly wrong about that, and punitive towards those who tried to suggest otherwise (General Shinseki, want your old job back?). He appaarently dismisses the need for ground-based human intelligence as yet another Cold War relic, and too soft-edged to bother with. That arrogant atttitude, not only his sacred-cow slaughtering, plays a part in his poor relations with the good people he commands. It’s natural for them to resent his having caused more people to die than necessary in this mission, even for those who accept its stated goals and strategy. Thanks Elvis… this is what I want to hear… Why, How and When the military complained about reforms. The reasons. How much of it is real opposition… and how much is repulsion to Rummy himself. Is Rummy really dismissive of humint ? Will there be heavy weight opponents in the future that might demand some Cold War Tanks and other Heavy stuff ? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwbs-strangely-passive-presidency/239972/83 "2004-04-19T20:34:56Z")
I don’t know any good way to separate those things, **Rashak**. If a career officer in the Pentagon dislikes him (Maureen Dowd has taken to calling him McNarummy) personally, he’ll be less likely to give his plans a fair listening to and won’t be as convinced by them. One who agrees with the plans is less likely to find McNarummy abrasive. I call him dismissive of humint because he hasn’t done anything to strengthen it. Further, the Office of Special Planning that he set up to circumvent that pesky CIA was in direct opposition to the principle of getting the facts first and then drawing conclusions, so one can infer that he has a disregard for not only humint but for all int. Will we need the Cold War stuff in the future? When we see a rival superpower that presents a credible major-war threat, we can discuss that. By then, though, the stuff we have now will be obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwbs-strangely-passive-presidency/239972/84 "2004-04-19T21:13:57Z")
The Rumsfeld - McNamara resemblance is starting to get positively eerie. And while it’s been awhile since I’ve reread _The Best and the Brightest_, I’m thinking Wolfowitz matches up pretty well with Walt Rostow in the True Believer school. (Rostow’s faith was in air power, which turned out to be pretty useless in that sort of war.) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwbs-strangely-passive-presidency/239972/85 "2004-04-20T02:10:27Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > It goes to show that no matter what course of action he took, people of your ilk would still be looking to discredit him. Just out of curiosity, what is my ilk? AFAICT, there’re quite a number of things he coulda done differently that wouldn’t’ve aroused my ire. I didn’t expect him to be such a grave and gathering danger to the American electorate. I even voted for the fella. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > It goes to your anti-Bush mindset and greatly negates the validity of your critisisms. Hogwash. The validity of criticisms stands or falls on the basis of facts, not who utters them. It’s puny sophistry to pretend that facts change depending on who utters them. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Apparently something like 9 out of 15 questions contained the premise that Bush had already done _something_ wrong, and was he gonna admit it? Fortunately, people are seeing right through this and it didn’t work. He and his Admin have “already done _something[s]_ wrong.” Furthermore, the man should accept responsibility for what occurs on his watch just a Reagan did. Even things that aren’t your fault can be your responsibility. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Boy!. Ya got me there, all right. :rolleyes: You made an assertion pertinent to my motivations. I told you you were wrong. What more do you want? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwbs-strangely-passive-presidency/239972/86 "2004-04-20T14:13:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > (Maureen Dowd has taken to calling him McNarummy) > > I call him dismissive of humint because he hasn’t done anything to strengthen it. Further, the Office of Special Planning that he set up to circumvent that pesky CIA was in direct opposition to the principle of getting the facts first and then drawing conclusions, so one can infer that he has a disregard for not only humint but for all int. Loved that McNarummy… 🙂 OSP is so scary. Organized “yes” sayers. I still can fanthom its existence as true… like the US needed more agencies. I have to agree with your disregard for intelligence… at least int that goes against his beliefs. ``` Chalabi played Bush and his gang like toys... sad ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gwbs-strangely-passive-presidency/239972.md?page=4)