# Gym Membership to Learn Weightlifting? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 19, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182 "2011-10-19T20:14:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182/41 "2011-10-20T22:06:44Z")
You’re definitely on the right track. Do you have any interest in kettlebell lifting? It sounds like it would suit you (they’re not for everyone). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182/42 "2011-10-20T22:11:25Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > You’re definitely on the right track. Do you have any interest in kettlebell lifting? It sounds like it would suit you (they’re not for everyone). I don’t know a lot about it, but it sounds fun. I’m just concerned I’d have to invest in a bunch of new equipment that I really can’t afford right now. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Dr.Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Love)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182/43 "2011-10-20T22:12:52Z")
Are there benefits to kettlebells that wouldn’t be supplied by the olympic-style lifts that **olivesmarch4th** is already doing? ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182/44 "2011-10-20T22:19:03Z")
> [@Dr.Love](#): > > Are there benefits to kettlebells that wouldn’t be supplied by the olympic-style lifts that **olivesmarch4th** is already doing? She mentioned swings and snatches, both of which I prefer a kettlebell for but I’m not trying to sell her on anything. I like dumbbells a lot too and kettlebells can be pricey. I love mine though. I only use my dumbbells for goblet squats these days. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182/45 "2011-10-20T22:36:31Z")
> [@HongKongFooey](#): > > You’re definitely on the right track. Do you have any interest in kettlebell lifting? It sounds like it would suit you (they’re not for everyone). > [@Dr.Love](#): > > Are there benefits to kettlebells that wouldn’t be supplied by the olympic-style lifts that **olivesmarch4th** is already doing? They’re fun? I have no idea if they’re the most effective use of my time for the biggest possible gains, etc. etc. etc. But I tend to like free weights more than machines and I like using kettlebells. For me, it’s a fun alternate workout and nice change up from lifting heavy objects and putting them down again (which I also like, but sometimes, it’s nice to do something different). They have them in the free weight room in my gym, which is convenient. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182/46 "2011-10-20T22:47:31Z")
Ambivalid, don’t you think your personal situation may be coloring your views here? Sure weight machines are great for those who can’t do squats and deadlifts, but the latter are better for those who can. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182/47 "2011-10-21T01:20:15Z")
> [@Dr.Love](#): > > You’re making an assumption about how learning occurs that, AFAICT, just isn’t true. Leaving the world of exercise for a moment, consider what happens when we teach people arithmetic solely through use of calculators. By forcing people to come up with the correct answers, your theory would conclude that they would be better able to do written or mental arithmetic down the road. But that just doesn’t happen. People only learn what they’re required to know in order to successfully complete the task. Teaching only calculator use teaches people to rely on the calculators. > > Similarly, using weight machines teaches people to rely on the preset path of the machine. It teaches people that the direction of force production doesn’t need to be parallel to the path of the weight, because pushing in a slightly different direction doesn’t keep them from completing the rep. > > The clearest example I can think of the [smith machine](http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/smith-machine-squat) [squat](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHnX-aimA4E). Everyone does these by putting the feet entirely in front of the bar. Consequently, everyone leans back into the bar to avoid falling over. So the direction of force is up and somewhat behind the bar, unlike in a barbell squat where the direction of force must be (very close to) straight up to avoid falling over. > > Of course, a calculator is quite useful to someone who knows what they’re doing. Likewise, weight machines can be quite useful to someone who knows what they’re doing. But centering a beginner’s program around weight machines will not produce the same results in proprioception and coordination as a free weight program. > > The is one other use for machines: strengthening the prime movers if the trainee is too weak to handle the barbell. Here is a video of [barbell aficionado Mark Rippetoe](http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/platform_the_leg_press) recommending the leg press for exactly that. > I can think of at least a couple more advantages: balance, proprioception and coordination. Again, I never said to “center a beginner’s workout routine around machines” or to use machines exclusively or predominately. And as far as learning proper form, you are correct when the training is performed solely on machines. But a beginner using a machine and free weights comes to a better understanding of correct form by being guided into the correct motion with the machines-and at the same time applying that knowledge to the use of freeweights. As far as people being different sizes, that is what machine adjustments are for. The seats adjust, the width and angle (and often length) of the handles adjust and pretty much accomodate most shapes and sizes. If only more people adopted this mindset, you wouldn’t see so much horrible form and style in basically every gym you can find. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182/48 "2011-10-21T01:36:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Ambivalid, don’t you think your personal situation may be coloring your views here? Sure weight machines are great for those who can’t do squats and deadlifts, but the latter are better for those who can. Not at all. I personally can’t use Smith machines due to my rotator cuff injuries and the fact that it locks the user into place with a certain range of motion is exactly why I can’t use them (well I can for a couple of exercises but not most). So I _do_ understand the criticism of that machine in that respect. I think successful use of a Smith machine is dependent on proper knowledge and understanding of the apparatus as well as being injury-free. But it can and should be used as part of a smart program. And I value free-weights above machines, to be sure. And the fact that I can’t do squats or deadlifts is irrelevant to my opinion on the value of machines. I don’t understand that parallel. I can’t do any _version_ of those exercises, either; machine or no. And “better” is not the right word to use in this context. Sure, if one form was all that was allowed, in some dastardly evil **Skald the Rhymer** hypothetical, I’d absolutely choose free weights. But this discussion isn’t about which form of weightlifting equipment is superior to another, but whether one should be even included at all in a beginner’s program. For one thing, a beginner is going to put on muscle fairly easily at the outset of their training with _any_ form of proven weightlifting. Now if they want to build from a knowledgeable, safe and effective foundation, that foundation should be made of free-weight work-both barbell and dumbbell, cables and _yes_, work with machines. The key, for whatever exercise you are performing-using whatever equipment it is you are using, is to know what you are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182/49 "2011-10-21T01:40:52Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Since it seems to be an issue, I just wanted to add that the other thing I enjoy doing is running. Squats help my crappy knees, power snatches, dumbbell swings, and assisted pull-ups (mostly just hanging from the bar at this point, but I’ll get there) help my core strength. Isolation exercises seem tedious to me when I can do things that incorporate a lot of muscles at once, and it also feels more… I dunno, practical to me. Because the kind of benefit I’m really looking for is to be able to use my strength in an everyday, dynamic way - to squat and pick things up or reach or bend or carry or whatever. I find this stuff really does help me maintain better form when running. > > Furthermore, although I understand that the most important element in fat loss is proper nutrition, I also understand that the more large muscle groups that are being used, the more lean muscle mass I will build ergo the better I will be at burning off fat. So to me that means a lot of squats. > > I’m not familiar with the scientific reality of these things, I just know that I don’t care for weight machines. I love the head to toe strength sequences - that’s one reason I like yoga, planks, things that just require you to use everything you’ve got. > > Also, keep in mind the only purpose of the gym to me is not to lift weights. I also like to use cardio machines and generally have as many options as possible when working out. I do like to change things up. Well, the most important element necessary for **any** sort of exercise plan for anyone is that they choose something that they enjoy. If not, it **will fail.** You aren’t going to consistently do something that you don’t like doing (lol, when it’s your choice, that is). 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gym-membership-to-learn-weightlifting/600182.md?page=2)