# Gynaecologists can't tell transwomen from women?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 26, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585 "2006-12-26T03:53:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/21 "2006-12-26T14:43:50Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana]
Jennifer Finney Boylan claimed on Larry King that her gynecologist couldn’t tell.
[/QUOTE]
Sounds like it’s time to find a new gynecologist…
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### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/22 "2006-12-26T14:47:11Z")
Naturally some labia are contoured simply, and some complexly. They’re all good if you ask me. Each vulva is as individual as a face.
So pre-ops get people like Stephen Rea barfing at the sight of their crotch, and post-ops get **Eleusis** barfing likewise. Girl is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. What makes me ill is a world filled with prejudice.
Does she or doesn’t she? Only her gyno knows for sure.
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### Author:  [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/23 "2006-12-26T15:00:55Z")
[QUOTE=Johanna]
Why did you say that?
[/QUOTE]
RE-read his post. He claimed he thought some of them were hot. Second nature (for guys) is to want to mate with said hot chick. Then after that thought crosses your mind you realise that the hot chick used to be a guy.
You’ll never be able to erase the thoughts of the block and tackle that _used_ to be down there.
Barfing ensues.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/24 "2006-12-26T15:22:40Z")
You know, given that there are a number of transgender women who read and post to this board and given that it is very likely that they will be reading this thread, perhaps it might be best to keep the incredibly fucking rude observation that the thought of their genitals makes you want to vomit to yourselves.
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### Author:  [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/25 "2006-12-26T15:28:14Z")
[QUOTE=Otto]
You know, given that there are a number of transgender women who read and post to this board and given that it is very likely that they will be reading this thread, perhaps it might be best to keep the incredibly fucking rude observation that the thought of their genitals makes you want to vomit to yourselves.
[/QUOTE]
No freaking shit. Man that was rude.
A woman is a woman, transgendered or not. I fall pretty far outside the standard for male beauty. So far, no upchuckers.
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/26 "2006-12-26T16:49:26Z")
I’ve never been to a gynecologist, as I don’t think I have any gynecology (I’m not entirely sure). But I have had boyfriends who have had, ummm, a close, ummm, _look_, and have been to GPs for overall exams, and none of them saw anything that raised any suspicions. In fact, when I wrote my medical history down for one GP he refused to believe me and thought I was being a weisenheimer.
Frankly, if I did go to a gynecologist and he noticed nothing unsual, that would be my last app’t. with _him!_
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### Author:  [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/27 "2006-12-26T17:07:50Z")
I was being more charitable and assuming that the reason the pictures might make one feel queasy is that when I’ve seen pictures of finished results, often they come with pictures of the actual surgery, which would make me queasy no matter what organ you’re taking out. I can’t watch hypodermic closeups in movies, though.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/28 "2006-12-26T17:38:02Z")
Gotta’ say, I don’t have a real firm sexual preference, but some close-up shots I’ve seen of tranny-girl bits have made me queasy or at least turned-off.
I don’t know what the other posters here were looking at though, so it’s hard for me to judge.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/29 "2006-12-26T17:48:40Z")
Well, actually, no, you didn’t _gotta_ say it, and you also didn’t _gotta_ use a term that many transgendered people find demeaning. Seriously, what exactly did you think you were contributing to this thread by posting that?
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### Author:  [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/30 "2006-12-26T17:50:56Z")
I’'ve seen photos of post-op M2F vaginae on line and some of them looked basically like a XX vagina without any labia minora, while some looked more like a Mr. Potatohead that had gotten too close to a butane torch.
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### Author:  [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/31 "2006-12-26T17:58:03Z")
I haven’t exactly gone searching, the only pictures I’ve seen were linked to when I asked [a related question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=200887), but I couldn’t tell the difference. A gynaecologist _must_ be able to, though, depending on the exact nature of the examination. Surely they don’t build a cervix when fashioning a new vagina?
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/32 "2006-12-26T17:58:38Z")
This could be an interesting thread if people could keep their editorializing the hell out of it. An opinion on whether you thought it looked real or not is one thing but whether or not you find it appealing is out of line and is more appropriate for IMHO.
I wonder what Ms. Bree really meant. If she meant that a gynecologist couldn’t tell by just looking, I might believe her in the specific case about her parts because she might have had an excellent surgeon whereas the ones that Doc Qadgop saw might have been more poorly done. If she meant that a gynecologist couldn’t tell the difference if they _examined_ her, I would find that impossible to believe.
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### Author:  [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/33 "2006-12-26T17:59:58Z")
I’m guessing that the surgical methods have evolved and it might matter how long ago it was done as to how well it turns out.
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### Author:  [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/34 "2006-12-26T18:01:05Z")
[QUOTE=Malienation]
I’ve heard that too, although I dunno if it’s true. I admit to being skeptical as well; I mean, **when you’re up to your elbows all day long in pussy (bolding mine)** , it seems to me you ain’t gonna be fooled easily. Having said that, I certainly could buy the notion that the _average_ guy couldn’t tell the difference.
[/QUOTE]
Well, that’s an interesting image.
[QUOTE=Johanna]
Naturally some labia are contoured simply, and some complexly. They’re all good if you ask me. **Each vulva is as individual as a face. (bolding mine)**
So pre-ops get people like Stephen Rea barfing at the sight of their crotch, and post-ops get **Eleusis** barfing likewise. Girl is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. What makes me ill is a world filled with prejudice.
Does she or doesn’t she? Only her gyno knows for sure.
[/QUOTE]
Ladies, I have some good news and some bad news.
The good news is you will no longer have to worry about how your face looks in drivers license and passport photos.
The bad news is…
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### Author:  [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/35 "2006-12-26T18:30:32Z")
[QUOTE=Otto]
Well, actually, no, you didn’t _gotta_ say it, and you also didn’t _gotta_ use a term that many transgendered people find demeaning. Seriously, what exactly did you think you were contributing to this thread by posting that?
[/QUOTE]
I was sharing my aesthetic judgements, which is inarguably off-topic to the OP, but perhaps no more so than half of this thread.
I apologize if my terminology gave any offense; my last involvement with any LGBT organization was a decade ago.
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### Author:  [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/36 "2006-12-26T19:25:08Z")
If a girl starts hormones early enough or is intersexed, it is very possible that she could develop female bone structure. With this, plus a skilled surgeon, you should not be able to tell -unless- you are a gynaecologist with a few exceptions. Some transwomen who are intersexed have female organs. I know at least two who are having complicatios due to the fact that they menstuate (although it is very irregular).
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/37 "2006-12-26T19:35:46Z")
[QUOTE=Eve]
I’ve never been to a gynecologist, as I don’t think I have any gynecology (I’m not entirely sure).
[/QUOTE]
Does your vagina self-lubricate when aroused? (As posed in post #13.)
If so . . . how do they **do** that?
Related question: I learned in high school bio that a clitoris is a vestigial penis – that is, all fetuses start out with the same protogenitals, and then at some point they start to differentiate; the bit that becomes a penis on a boy will become a clitoris on a girl. Do gender-reassignment surgeons take advantage of that? Save a bit of the glans to make a sensitive, arousable clitoris?
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### Author:  [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/38 "2006-12-26T19:53:07Z")
[QUOTE=erie774]
Well, that’s an interesting image.
Ladies, I have some good news and some bad news.
The good news is you will no longer have to worry about how your face looks in drivers license and passport photos.
The bad news is…
[/QUOTE]
That may solve the problem of women who don’t want to have their face photographed unveiled.
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### Author:  [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/39 "2006-12-26T20:28:20Z")
When I get an exam, my gyno also feels my uterus and ovaries, and scrapes the cervix for the Pap smear, so unless they are constructing all that, it’s a poor gyno who can’t tell the difference.
I guess you could say you have had a full hysterectomy, but I still think a MTF would be different no matter how good the surgery. I’m sure the cervix at least would give it away.
If you are talking about whether a gyno (or anyone) could tell simply by looking at a naked person standing normally or walking around, I’m sure with decent surgery it would be hard or impossible to tell. Most things are just tucked away in there. Once you start an actual exam though, I don’t know how you couldn’t tell that something was different.
With the lights off and an excited partner, I am sure people have been fooled before though.
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### Author:  [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gynaecologists-cant-tell-transwomen-from-women/385585/40 "2006-12-26T20:34:18Z")
[QUOTE=Otto]
You know, given that there are a number of transgender women who read and post to this board and given that it is very likely that they will be reading this thread, perhaps it might be best to keep the incredibly fucking rude observation that the thought of their genitals makes you want to vomit to yourselves.
[/QUOTE]
You’re right, I apologise for coming off that way.
If I wasn’t clear, I didn’t say that I wouldn’t be turned on by how they look _ **now** _, it would be the subliminal thoughts running through my head of what _was_ there. That would be completely my fault, not the other person’s.
And depending how hot she is I may be able to escape the clutches of my evil thoughts in a couple milliseconds or so.
_taps soil with shovel_
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