# Gypsies in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 24, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795 "2004-02-24T00:43:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/21 "2004-02-25T12:10:18Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > But they’re _Travellers_. They aren’t settled people. Your (and your councils’) failure to understand this is at the root of the problem. No, the root of the problem is their antisocial behaviour which incites feelings like that. I, personally, was chased by a gipsy with a knife when I was smaller, and was forced to run to a nearby dog walker for help. THe mess that they leave when they move on is absolutely disgusting - words can’t really begin to describe it, and it’s compounded even more by the fact that the area in which they camp is an area where local children and youth teams play. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/22 "2004-02-25T12:15:21Z")
Well, it’s hard to defend leaving your rubbish around when there are bins to put it in. But that doesn’t address the accommodation issue. I’m sorry about your incident with the knife-wielder, but travellers hardly have a monopoly on violent criminal behaviour. In fact I have never experienced it personally, but I have certainly experienced it from settled people. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/23 "2004-02-25T12:19:39Z")
> [@](#): > > But that doesn’t address the accommodation issue. Why should the council start spending money on a group of people who don’t pay any taxes over the rest of the population of the town who do? They have no legal obligation to do so. Another thing: how do the gipsy children get educated? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/24 "2004-02-25T12:24:29Z")
Children, some pensioners and disabled people don’t pay council tax. The council still provides services for them. Any parents are entitled to teach their children at home - the obligation is on the council to ensure the education is of an acceptable standard. Anyway, many traveller children do attend school. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/25 "2004-02-25T12:31:00Z")
I didn’t pay council tax when I lived in England either (I was a student). Hopefully **Kal** will come along soon to address the specifics of the Traveller situation in England, as I’m far less familiar with it. Here in Ireland most Traveller children do attend school, generally alongside settled children, although some settled families have been known to pull their children out when Travellers begin attending (much like some white families have done in American schools when black kids enrolled). It seems to me in any case that provision of adequate accommodation would save the council a lot of grief (and money) down the line. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/26 "2004-02-25T12:41:07Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Children, some pensioners and disabled people don’t pay council tax. The council still provides services for them. Ohh come on, are you serious? There’s a common theme amongst the three you mentioned: they cannot pay through no fault of their own and not through choice like gypsies. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/27 "2004-02-25T12:44:27Z")
IIRC, travellers who rent land are obliged to pay council tax. If they don’t, it’s probably incompetence by the council. Otherwise, it’s perfectly legal - your objection is therefore with the council tax system. People living on boats, for example, are also exempt. BTW, your indiscriminate use of the word ‘Gypsy’ to encompass all travellers is starting to grate. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/28 "2004-02-25T12:48:09Z")
> [@](#): > > If they don’t, it’s probably incompetence by the council. Otherwise, it’s perfectly legal - your objection is therefore with the council tax system. People living on boats, for example, are also exempt. Nobody is arguing over the legality of it. What we are arguing over is why the council should provide special services to a group of people who haven’t payed for them. > [@](#): > > BTW, your indiscriminate use of the word ‘Gypsy’ to encompass all travellers is starting to grate. Sorry, I wasn’t aware of any negative connotation. It was my impression that all travellers were gypsies. Didn’t mean to offend. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/29 "2004-02-25T13:06:00Z")
Gypsies pass through western Pennsylvania every year or so. They prey mercilessly on the elderly. A favorite tactic is to knock at the front door and engage the old person in conversation while another gypsy enters through the back door and steals whatever valuable, portable objects come to hand. Another is for a pair to knock at the front door. While engaging the elderly person in conversation, one of the pair asks to use the rest room ending with the same results. Years ago, in my home town, using these methods they stole a coin collection from an old man. My dad, who was police sgt., promptly arrested two (randomly chosen) gypsies. Working in cahoots with the district magistrate, bail for the pair was set at some insanely high figure. Their hetman, or whatever gypsies call their capo, claimed he couldn’t pay that much, of course. Dad then indicated that if the coin collection turned up, bail might be lowered. The gypsies insisted they knew nothing about any coin collection. Things were seemingly at an impasse for a day or two, and then (surprise!) the gypsies “found” the coin collection. The magistrate lowered bail to a few hundred dollars for the incarcerated pair. The gypsies bailed them out and promptly skipped town. Are there good gypsies? None ever came through my home town. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/30 "2004-02-25T13:27:50Z")
> [@+MDI](#): > > Sorry, I wasn’t aware of any negative connotation. It was my impression that all travellers were gypsies. Didn’t mean to offend. I think we were talking about Irish travellers. The “pc” term for gypsy is “Rom” nowadays, I think. Irish travellers aren’t Rom, they’re a different ethnic group altogether. Now, not to be wanting to catch you out on semantics, but I think it is symptomatic of generalisations which are being made in the discussion. I will not deny that I have seen travellers behave in anti-social and or violent ways. To deny that would be like to deny that there is violence in say, black ghettos in L.A. But you can’t from that to the conclusion that 1. every black/traveller is going to be anti-social/violent and 2. that they will be so because of their ethnicity or chosen way of lifestyle. Sorry to be about as subtle as a sledgehammer, but drawing conclusions about the characteristics of a person because of their ethnicity is racism, no? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/31 "2004-02-25T13:42:04Z")
Drawing some conlcusions about there culture is not. There appear to be long-standing traditions of theft among Gypsies. I’m not familiar with Irish Travellers, so I can’t state anything about them. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/32 "2004-02-25T13:42:46Z")
> [@](#): > > But you can’t from that to the conclusion that 1. every black/traveller is going to be anti-social/violent Of course you can’t. You can, however, at least know what to expect (in general) when travellers arrive in your vicinity. The only time that the local police station appears to be manned is when the travellers have arrived. > [@](#): > > that they will be so because of their ethnicity or chosen way of lifestyle. I’d have thought chosen way of lifestyle has everything to do with how someone behaves. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/33 "2004-02-25T13:45:14Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > There appear to be long-standing traditions of theft among Gypsies. CITE???!!!?! ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/34 "2004-02-25T13:48:58Z")
[http://fraudtech.bizland.com/gypsy\_book.htm](http://fraudtech.bizland.com/gypsy_book.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/35 "2004-02-25T13:53:04Z")
According to Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary, the actual word “gypsy” means: > [@](#): > > \Gyp"sy, n.; pl. Gypsies. [OE. Gypcyan, F. gyptien Egyptian, gypsy, L. Aegyptius. See Egyptian.] [Also spelled gipsy and gypsey.] 1. One of a vagabond race, whose tribes, coming originally from India, entered Europe in 14th or 15th centry, and are now scattered over Turkey, Russia, Hungary, Spain, England, etc., **living by theft** , fortune telling, horsejockeying, tinkering, etc. Cf. Bohemian, Romany. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/36 "2004-02-25T13:58:36Z")
> [@+MDI](#): > > [http://fraudtech.bizland.com/gypsy\_book.htm](http://fraudtech.bizland.com/gypsy_book.htm) That book, whether it has an agenda or not, is about ‘Gypsy criminal gangs’. Not about Roma people as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/37 "2004-02-25T14:01:44Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > There appear to be long-standing traditions of theft among Gypsies. > [@GorillaMan](#): > > CITE???!!!?! > [@+MDI](#): > > [http://fraudtech.bizland.com/gypsy\_book.htm](http://fraudtech.bizland.com/gypsy_book.htm) Can’t get a better cite for Gypsy criminality then that, given the author’s definition of Gypsy is: > [@](#): > > Gypsy: (as used by me) a reference to a specific segment of the Romani population who call themselves Gypsies, and who support themselves through various organized and very predictable criminal activities. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/38 "2004-02-25T14:14:25Z")
Yes, perhaps not the best cite in the world. It appears that my own experiences with them have tainted my perception of the community as a whole. I apologise and retract my comments. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/39 "2004-02-25T14:15:01Z")
To add to **Ruadh’s** links for Irish Travellers, try the US-based [Traveller’s Rest](http://www.travellersrest.org/index.htm). Also, according to one of those Traveller crime experts, the number of Irish Travellers who take part in scams is between 10-15%. * * * Back to Romani-Americans. You’ll find Romani people in most of the large cities. I beleive there are large populations in Fort Worth, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Sacremento, Chicago, Seattle, Spokane, etc. The majority of Romani-Americans are pretty well settled, I’ve read that less than 3% are nomadic. It’s also been claimed that only 5% of the world’s total Romani population are nomadic, btw. As to getting messed with by the authorities, [read this](http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/pariah-ch14.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Flying\_Monk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@Flying\_Monk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Monk)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795/40 "2004-02-25T14:26:45Z")
I recently remembered something… There are a group of contractors around northern MA & southern NH, who are referred to as “the Gypsies”. I’m not sure if they’re actually Roma, or Irish Travellers, or what, but they’re notorious con men. They do paving mostly, getting low-quality asphalt for almost nothing, or stealing it, and paving driveways and things for less than a reputable paving contractor. One lady we know, who had quotes of $5,000-$6,000 for her driveway, got an offer from the Gypsies to do it for only $3,000. She ok’d it, then went out briefly, and when she returned the driveway was there & the Gypsies weren’t. She was amazed at how quickly they had done it, as she was probably out for no more than an hour. Turns out, they had simply laid out an inch thick layer over her lawn, which of course didn’t last long. Apparently law enforcement has been after these folks for years, but they change company names so often, and move around so much, that it’s an upward battle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-in-the-us/230795.md?page=3)