# Gypsies taking children. A old bogeyman brought back to life. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 20, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757 "2013-10-20T22:23:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/101 "2013-10-26T13:57:04Z")
\*\*Broomstick \*\*reminds us: these sorts of “informal” fosterings/adoptions used to not be unusual among what we now call the “mainstream” cultures. [Quote=Broomstick] > [@JRDelirious](#): > > AFAIK, in most American states, the rule would be that if there are no fit and available recognized family members (adoptive if an adoption has been consummated, natural if not) to whom to return a displaced child, you do not just hand her back over to the people who had her under irregular circumstances without going through a prolonged process. Are you so sure about that? [/quote] It is my AFAIK/IIRC impression as of the time that was posted. I am willing to be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/102 "2013-10-26T14:31:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Gorgiosplain works; I wasn’t completely and entirely serious about “mansplain.” > > Mansplain is kind of an interesting construction, though, representing when someone who doesn’t really know what they’re talking about condescendingly and incorrectly explains something to someone who isn’t ignorant, under the assumption that the audience, being a member of a less-respected group, cannot possibly understand things as well as the ignorant and condescending explainer, who is deemed an expert on all topics by virtue of membership in a more-respected group. > > That’s a lot to include in two syllables, and I don’t know of any other word, neologism or paleo-, that gets to all of that. True. “Womansplain” is \*three \*syllables. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/103 "2013-10-28T16:54:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > No. The story here is that gypsies stole a baby. That’s what’s revolting. The police’s immediate belief that this happened because of gypsy-child-snatching, not because of informal adoption, is also probably a symptom (not a clear indication, a symptom, although I despair of Fothering whatever of getting the difference) of racism on the part of the police. Do have any basis for this claim that the police had an “immediate belief that this happened because of gypsy-child-snatching, not because of informal adoption”? The police are required to investigate the possiblity that a crime might have been committed, regardless of whether they had “immediate belief” that it had. The real story here is your own “immediate belief” that racism was at work, despite no actual evidence of this. Given the emptyness of your position, it’s not surprising that you’ve been reduced to username-mockery, although considering the level of your other “contributions” to this thread, “reduced” may not be quite the right word here. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/104 "2013-10-28T16:57:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It has now come to light that the “blond angel” is actually Roma, and her birth mother left her in the care of the Dimopoulous of her own free will. Parents _are_ allowed to appoint guardians for their children that are entirely unrelated. My understanding is that the birth mother left her in the care of a different couple, who in turn gave her to the Dimopoulouses. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/105 "2013-10-28T17:01:56Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Do have any basis for this claim that the police had an “immediate belief that this happened because of gypsy-child-snatching, not because of informal adoption”? The police are required to investigate the possiblity that a crime might have been committed, regardless of whether they had “immediate belief” that it had. Right, which is why they left the kid with her family during the investigation. Oh, wait! > [@](#): > > The real story here is your own “immediate belief” that racism was at work, despite no actual evidence of this. You’re right, there’s no actual evidence of my “immediate belief that racism was at work.” I strongly suspect it was, due to evidence of past discrimination coupled with evidence that the police were wrong. > [@](#): > > Given the emptyness of your position, it’s not surprising that you’ve been reduced to username-mockery, although considering the level of your other “contributions” to this thread, “reduced” may not be quite the right word here. Dude, if I want to mock your username, you’ll know. Calling you “fothering” wasn’t mockery, it was shortening your name. Thicken your skin. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/106 "2013-10-28T17:06:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Right, which is why they left the kid with her family during the investigation. Oh, wait! They were not legal guardians, regardless. > [@](#): > > You’re right, there’s no actual evidence of my “immediate belief that racism was at work.” I strongly suspect it was, due to evidence of past discrimination coupled with evidence that the police were wrong. What evidence was there that the police were doing anything wrong at the time you made your first post suggesting that they were racist? > [@](#): > > Dude, if I want to mock your username, you’ll know. Calling you “fothering” wasn’t mockery, it was shortening your name. Thicken your skin. “Fothering whatever” is as long as “Fotheringay-Phipps”. You want to act immature go ahead, but don’t pretend that’s not what you’re doing. Be proud of what you are. Actually on second thought, maybe that’s not such a good idea … ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/107 "2013-10-28T17:13:54Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > They were not legal guardians, regardless. Absolutely, and when I use the word “family,” I am speaking in legalistic terms. There is no validity to families other than the law, and before the state existed, families didn’t exist. The police should have left her with her guardians, legal or otherwise, until they had strong evidence to precipitate her removal. Instead they based the removal on her blonde hair. > [@](#): > > What evidence was there that the police were doing anything wrong at the time you made your first post suggesting that they were racist? I offered it earlier. > [@](#): > > “Fothering whatever” is as long as “Fotheringay-Phipps”. > > You want to act immature go ahead, but don’t pretend that’s not what you’re doing. Be proud of what you are. Actually on second thought, maybe that’s not such a good idea … Whatever, dude. Fothering whatever, if it bothers you that much, I’ll avoid. It’s a ridiculous thing to get snippy about, but obviously that’s what you’re left with. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/108 "2013-10-28T17:19:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Absolutely, and when I use the word “family,” I am speaking in legalistic terms. There is no validity to families other than the law, and before the state existed, families didn’t exist. > > The police should have left her with her guardians, legal or otherwise, until they had strong evidence to precipitate her removal. Instead they based the removal on her blonde hair. I don’t know that they should have. And neither do you. Unless you can show that SOP would be to leave the kid with this family in a similar circumstance absent “racism” then you haven’t even begun to make any sort of case. > [@](#): > > I offered it earlier. No, you did not. > [@](#): > > Whatever, dude. Fothering whatever, if it bothers you that much, I’ll avoid. It’s a ridiculous thing to get snippy about, but obviously that’s what you’re left with. That’s very sweet of you dear. But my point was really about what this showed about the level of your posting here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/109 "2013-10-28T17:35:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t know that they should have. And neither do you. Unless you can show that SOP would be to leave the kid with this family in a similar circumstance absent “racism” then you haven’t even begun to make any sort of case. Hence my use of the word “might” above. We know that there’s widespread racism against Roma. We know a big piece of that racism is a belief that Roma kidnap white children. We know that the police removed a blonde child from her caregivers and then started trying to figure out whose child they’d kidnapped. There’s no smoking gun, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong. > [@](#): > > No, you did not. Yuh huh. > [@](#): > > That’s very sweet of you dear. > > But my point was really about what this showed about the level of your posting here. Oh, I’m clear on the point you thought you were making. It’s a pitiful petulant point, but it wasn’t ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/110 "2013-10-28T17:41:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Hence my use of the word “might” above. We know that there’s widespread racism against Roma. We know a big piece of that racism is a belief that Roma kidnap white children. We know that the police removed a blonde child from her caregivers and then started trying to figure out whose child they’d kidnapped. There’s no smoking gun, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong. IOW, no evidence at all. And of course, once you suggested based on nothing that the police might be “crazy racist”, you were well on your way, Anti-Racist Superhero cape trailing behind you … > [@](#): > > Oh, I’m clear on the point you thought you were making. It’s a pitiful petulant point, but it wasn’t ambiguous. So IOW when you wrote “if it bothers you that much …” you were saying something that you knew to be untrue. (Very similar to your claim that you were “shortening your name”.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/111 "2013-10-28T17:50:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > IOW, no evidence at all. > > And of course, once you suggested based on nothing that the police might be “crazy racist”, you were well on your way, Anti-Racist Superhero cape trailing behind you … Circumstantial evidence is no evidence at all? Do you understand the English language? > [@](#): > > So IOW when you wrote “if it bothers you that much …” you were saying something that you knew to be untrue. (Very similar to your claim that you were “shortening your name”.) IOW I was saying something true: I think you’re incredibly thin-skinned in this regard and grasping at straws. IOW I’ll not say Fothering whatever again because you’ve practically burst into tears over it. IOW I think you’d love to keep talking about this because your claims on what I’ve said about racism, and the evidence thereof, are looking stupider and stupider. IOW, it’d be a good time to admit you don’t have a leg to stand on. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/112 "2013-10-28T17:53:26Z")
It occurs to me that I’m coming dangerously close to breaking rules here, if I haven’t done so already, so I apologize to others for this hijack and won’t participate further in it. F-P can meet me in the concurrent thread in the pit if he feels the need to discuss it with me any more. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757/113 "2013-10-28T18:40:11Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Circumstantial evidence is no evidence at all? Do you understand the English language? “There’s a lot of racism against Roma so these cops might be crazy racist” is not circumstantial evidence, sorry. > [@](#): > > IOW I was saying something true: I think you’re incredibly thin-skinned in this regard and grasping at straws. As above, it was a remark about the level of your discourse, such as it is. It wouldn’t have dragged out were you not so determined to be disingenuous about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsies-taking-children-a-old-bogeyman-brought-back-to-life/671757.md?page=5)