# "Gypsy" style in classical music **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 23, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-style-in-classical-music/1009112 "2024-10-23T18:32:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quondam\_Mechanic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quondam_mechanic/32/3404_2.png) [@Quondam\_Mechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quondam_Mechanic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-style-in-classical-music/1009112/1 "2024-10-23T18:32:39Z")
There’s a recognizable style in classical compositions where the title of the piece suggests that it’s supposed to be “Gypsy” style. Is it just a case of composers imitating other composers’ versions in the same style, or is there much relation to Roma folk music? Typically the composers are from Hungary or that area, and sometimes the identification between a Hungarian national style and the “Gypsy” style is blurred. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-style-in-classical-music/1009112/2 "2024-10-23T19:35:53Z")
Well, traditional Hungarian music that sounds “gypsyish” is csardas dance music – alternating fast and slow sections. Think Brahms’ Hungarian dances. I have no idea if csardas is related to Roma style music/dancing. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-style-in-classical-music/1009112/3 "2024-10-23T20:04:29Z")
Béla Babai is the violinist I know as the “King of the Gypsy Violin” and he is indeed from that area although he moved to the US. You can find his recordings on Youtube, Spotify, etc. Good stuff. > **[Béla Babai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_Babai)** > > Antal Béla Babai (April 27, 1914 – October 1, 1997) was a Romani-American violinist, and interpreter of Romani music. Babai was born in Austro-Hungarian Empire and emigrated to the United States in the late 1930s, where he became famous as "The King of the Gypsy Violin". > Babai was born in Graz, Austria-Hungary and grew up in Kaposvár near a large community of Romani. He learned to play the violin at a young age. At age 12 he would play in a local cafe, and in later years he would keep a clipping... ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-style-in-classical-music/1009112/4 "2024-10-23T20:45:11Z")
This may refer to several modes containing a 1½-tone step and/or a sharp fourth degree. Tagg’s book has a table listing Hijaz, Hijaz Kar, Nawa Athar, Niavent, Nikriz, Lydian w/ flat seventh, and Mustaar. Hijaz Kar, Nawa Athar, and Niavent are qualified as “Gypsy/Gypsy major”, “Gypsy minor/Hungarian minor/Hungarian Gypsy”, and “Hungarian Gypsy”, respectively; Mustaar is qualified “Hungarian major”. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-style-in-classical-music/1009112/5 "2024-10-23T21:09:03Z")
> [@Quondam\_Mechanic](#): > > Is it just a case of composers imitating other composers’ versions in the same style, or is there much relation to Roma folk music? Can’t it be both? The Roma were valued for their musical skills, and then again composers like Liszt and Bartók who were inspired by older music traditions or more urbanized Gypsy music in turn did much to formulate and spread musical “Hungarianness” around Europe. So there is both a real relation as well as, eventually, a sound adapted to Western ears indicating Hungary/Gypsy — de Sarasate and Monti are mentioned as formulating the most popular representations, even though neither were Hungarian. The section in the book is worth reading and gives many examples. ---
**Author:** ![Quondam\_Mechanic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quondam_mechanic/32/3404_2.png) [@Quondam\_Mechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quondam_Mechanic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-style-in-classical-music/1009112/6 "2024-10-23T21:14:37Z")
Sure it can be both – I would expect that the Hungarian folk tradition is influenced by Roma music (although since there are Roma in many countries, I’m not sure why Hungarian music especially). But I was wondering to what extent there’s an authentic Roma element in this sort of music. What is the book by Tagg that you’re referring to? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-style-in-classical-music/1009112/7 "2024-10-23T21:27:21Z")
> [@Quondam\_Mechanic](#): > > What is the book by Tagg that you’re referring to? I learned of this stuff from _Everyday Tonality II_ ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-style-in-classical-music/1009112/8 "2024-10-23T21:40:09Z")
> [@Quondam\_Mechanic](#): > > I’m not sure why Hungarian music especially Until World War 1 most of the traditional Roma homeland was part of Hungary (now it’s part Romania, part Hungary.) Hungarian composers drew heavily from folk music, including, of course, Roma. Or as my father the Magyar liked to put it, “Liszt and Kodaly stole from the folk songs, and Bartok stole from Liszt and Kodaly.” He was only partly joking - Bartok and Kodaly were contemporaries.