# H1B visas - no jobs for US citizens. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2001, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/h1b-visas-no-jobs-for-us-citizens/48739 "2001-01-06T17:21:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/h1b-visas-no-jobs-for-us-citizens/48739/101 "2001-01-11T15:51:24Z")
> [@](#): > > JTC, as you well know, in a high-tech ad, a range of salaries is usually specified because everyone negotiates that, based on the experience of the person, what the company is willing to lay out, and the condition of the market at the time. As another datum to support JTC’s response, the last two jobs I accepted were advertised with a specific salary. One of them was also advertised with a very explicit set of skills. Both fit quite clearly into the “high-tech” category (systems programmer, unix administrator). ---
**Author:** ![BunnyGirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@BunnyGirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyGirl)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/h1b-visas-no-jobs-for-us-citizens/48739/102 "2001-01-11T16:19:54Z")
Just my $.02 here based on my experience. > [@](#): > > Normal want ads, however, don’t go into excruciating details and don’t post an absolutely specific number for the salary The software company I worked for actually would go into great detail about what they needed for tech jobs and the salary was listed. They didn’t want Joe Blow off the street coming in or wasting their time because he “knew a little sumpthin” about computers. They were very specific about what they needed. The salary was an annual rate determined by an hourly figure, but they listed the annual rate. Typically, the salary was always negotiable but at least the figure gave applicants some kind of idea what we were looking at. Now, not knowing much about what different kinds of visas there are, I do know that we **specifically** wouldn’t interview or consider one woman for a programming position because she was on a visa (of some kind) and the expenses for supporting her visa were more than our little company could handle. I guess they’d hired that way before and the hoops they had to jump through for Immigration were a serious drain on the time of the HR department (i.e. our accountant). Now, as a clerical person, I can also state that every ad I’ve ever answered for office work has been very detailed: here’s an example (that I’ve made up based on my experience): Executive Assistant to vice president of Sales, must be extremely organized, hard-working, multi-tasking ability needed, organize meetings and off-site conferences, provide extensive customer service and executive support in our new offices, M-F, 8-5, benefits included, typing speed 75wpm, must know Word, Excel, Access. Experience with A/S400 preferred. Some overtime. Salary up $13.50 per hour. Mail resume to XXX Joe Road, MI or fax to XXX-XXXX. Ad space **is** expensive. That ad (and I’ve placed lots of them for companies I’ve worked for) would cost about $400 for 1 week in our town. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2001, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/h1b-visas-no-jobs-for-us-citizens/48739/103 "2001-01-14T01:34:58Z")
**goboy** wrote > [@](#): > > As I recall, you’re ( **Bill H.** is) a recruiter for H1-B workers, so your comments cannot be construed as disinterested. Apparently, you believe that Americans should settle for lower wages or lose jobs to cheaper foreign competition. > There are educated, industrious Indians or Pakistanis who would be crackerjack employment recruiters. Are you ready to give away your job to a foreigner who is willing to work hard? After all, if we relax or do away with immigration laws, your employer would be free to put your job out to someone who will take less money. Lower wages increase profitability, and, after all, isn’t that much more important? > than the economic welfare of greedy americans? Well, firstly, to be accurate I’m not a recruiter, I’m a CEO. I do many other things beyond recruiting people, and in fact most of the actual recruiting that is done isn’t directly by me but by recruiters in my organization. But to answer your question: No, I don’t have a problem including immigrants in the job pool for positions I hold. In fact, in my industry (silicon valley high tech), there are many successful immigrants in my position, many who are much more successful than I. And when I say “more successful”, I mean that in a head-to-head job competition between me and them, they would be more likely to win the position. Why am I not concerned about this? Because there are plenty of job openings out there, and having these intelligent, hard-working additions to our society **increases** the number of job openings in our society. Also, when you say [quote] As I recall, you’re ( **Bill H.** is) a recruiter for H1-B workers, so your comments cannot be construed as disinterested./quote] you imply that my voice shouldn’t be heard because I’m closer to the issue than others. It seems to me that the opposite is true, that my experiences give me a perspective that is more insightful than the average person. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2001, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/h1b-visas-no-jobs-for-us-citizens/48739/104 "2001-01-14T01:38:13Z")
**goboy** wrote > [@](#): > > As I recall, you’re ( **Bill H.** is) a recruiter for H1-B workers, so your comments cannot be construed as disinterested. Apparently, you believe that Americans should settle for lower wages or lose jobs to cheaper foreign competition. > There are educated, industrious Indians or Pakistanis who would be crackerjack employment recruiters. Are you ready to give away your job to a foreigner who is willing to work hard? After all, if we relax or do away with immigration laws, your employer would be free to put your job out to someone who will take less money. Lower wages increase profitability, and, after all, isn’t that much more important? > than the economic welfare of greedy americans? Well, firstly, to be accurate I’m not a recruiter, I’m a CEO. I do many other things beyond recruiting people, and in fact most of the actual recruiting that is done isn’t directly by me but by recruiters in my organization. But to answer your question: No, I don’t have a problem including immigrants in the job pool for positions I hold. In fact, in my industry (silicon valley high tech), there are many successful immigrants in my position, many who are much more successful than I. And when I say “more successful”, I mean that in a head-to-head job competition between me and them, they would be more likely to win the position. Why am I not concerned about this? Because there are plenty of job openings out there, and having these intelligent, hard-working additions to our society **increases** the number of job openings in our society. Also, when you wrote > [@](#): > > As I recall, you’re ( **Bill H.** is) a recruiter for H1-B workers, so your comments cannot be construed as disinterested. you implied that my voice shouldn’t be heard because I am closer to the issue than others. It seems to me that the opposite is true, that my experiences give me more relevant insights into the issue than others who are not involved. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2001, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/h1b-visas-no-jobs-for-us-citizens/48739/105 "2001-01-14T01:39:27Z")
sorry for double post. I guess this one makes a triple. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2001, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/h1b-visas-no-jobs-for-us-citizens/48739/106 "2001-01-14T08:28:23Z")
Gee, Bill, I didn’t even think one post was necessary to dismiss such a pathetic ad hominem argument. Although I do find it amusing that another one of the “facts” brought into this discussion by opponents of H1-B’s turns out to have been a bit in error. Not that all people opposed to H1-B’s are liars, of course, but the ones posting to this thread seem to have a slight problem with truth. Looks like we chased _Stormtrax_ away, though. Figures, must be awfully embarassing to be proven to be completely full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![JubilationTCornpone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@JubilationTCornpone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JubilationTCornpone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2001, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/h1b-visas-no-jobs-for-us-citizens/48739/107 "2001-01-15T02:21:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bill H. \* > \*\* > But to answer your question: No, I don’t have a problem including immigrants in the job pool for positions I hold. In fact, in my industry (silicon valley high tech), there are many successful immigrants in my position, many who are much more successful than I. And when I say “more successful”, I mean that in a head-to-head job competition between me and them, they would be more likely to win the position. Why am I not concerned about this? Because there are plenty of job openings out there, and having these intelligent, hard-working additions to our society **increases** the number of job openings in our society._\* Ain’t that the truth! Every single company I’ve worked for in the past four years has been **scrambling** to hire engineers and programmers. They’ve even been willing to wait for months, just to get the right person (citizen or otherwise). There are plenty of jobs to go around, which is why I don’t buy this nonsense about foreigners stealing jobs or driving salaries down significantly. (If they do tend to decrease wages, I can’t believe that the impact is anywhere close to devastating. Heck, if they fill necessary jobs, then this should have a long-term _positive_ impact on salary levels!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/h1b-visas-no-jobs-for-us-citizens/48739.md?page=5)