# HA! The IRS "Scandal" Was A Crock O' Shit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729 "2013-07-05T16:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/181 "2013-07-18T18:39:50Z")
That’s your view. The public had a different view before, much less now. Be interesting to see how the public reacts to the newest revelations. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/182 "2013-07-18T19:10:27Z")
And yet, despite the pure flop-sweating desperation of the House GOP, there is still no there there. _shrugs_ At least it keeps them off the streets… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/183 "2013-07-18T19:34:14Z")
That’s why the investigation is still ongoing. The latest news takes things just one step away from the White House. But even if it doesn’t lead to the White House, it’s useful for the public to see how evil the IRS is and that gives momentum for legislation to further rein in the IRS. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/184 "2013-07-19T10:52:39Z")
Concise take [here](http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/07/18/darrell_issa_s_big_irs_revelation_about_the_white_house_was_revealed_two.html?wpisrc=flyouts) on the circular reasoning behind the GOP’s continued pointing to the echo of their accusations as proof that there IS a “scandal” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/185 "2013-07-19T11:22:51Z")
That Slate article is some interesting spin. but at least it now admits that DC officials were implicated in the targeting, rather than Cincinnati employees. Glad that much is now settled. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/186 "2013-07-19T12:02:10Z")
Spin? Implicated? How so? Where do you see ANY mention of targeting directives being sent from DC officials? You’re on treadmill going nowhere with the circular logic and assertions Adaher. The article clearly delineates between the facts and what Issa is claiming in his statements and then clumsily attempting to disassociate himself from with the “I’m not saying it originated from the White House, I’m merely asking if it did.” schtick. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/187 "2013-07-19T12:15:10Z")
The article clearly tries to make the scandal about Issa, as if American taxpayers and voters care about Darrell Issa. As for the targeting, it’s been admitted, and people in DC have been fired. Apparently the IRS chief counsel is next. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/188 "2013-07-19T12:48:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But at least **it now admits that DC officials were implicated in the targeting** , rather than Cincinnati employees. > > Glad that much is now settled. [quote=“adaher, post:187, topic:662729”] The article clearly tries to make the scandal about Issa, as if American taxpayers and voters care about Darrell Issa. **As for the targeting, it’s been admitted** , [QUOTE] First you claim the article implicates DC officials, now its a vague,“Its been admitted” unassociated with the article. I can see as a true believer your faith does not require an interpretation of events to be reality based or factual to produce your assertions. > [@adaher](#): > > and people in DC have been fired. Apparently the IRS chief counsel is next. Apparent to whom Adaher? I’ve not read this anywhere. Perhaps you have a source with the inside scoop? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/189 "2013-07-19T12:48:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for the targeting, it’s been admitted… “They’re trying to kill me," Yossarian told him calmly. “No one’s trying to kill you,” Clevinger cried. “Then why are they shooting at me?” Yossarian asked. “They’re shooting at everyone,” Clevinger answered. “They’re trying to kill everyone.” "And what difference does that make?” ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/190 "2013-07-19T13:20:27Z")
[Slight Hijack] > [@adaher](#): > > it’s useful for the public to see how\*\* evil\*\* the IRS is and that gives momentum for legislation to further rein in the IRS. _Bolding Mine_ No agency or division of the government expressly provided for by the Constitution of The United States is **Evil** , even if you Do owe it money. Fiscal responsibility requires not only an efficient use of available resources, but **a timely collection of debts owed**. Now, if you want to argue the merits of the scenario citing the facts and their sources while listing the specific people you can cite with proof are involved, I think you’ll find even your harshest critics might listen. > [@sylmar](#): > > You’re on treadmill going nowhere with the circular logic and assertions Adaher. **Adaher** , I invite you to re-read **sylmar’s** quote again. Maybe there are some articles you forgot to cite that will help you make your case. I say this because without facts, you are just running on a treadmill. While its your right to stay on it as long as you like, nobody is really going to care how good your mileage is when you aren’t going anywhere. [/Slight Hijack] ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/191 "2013-07-19T15:33:34Z")
No agency has been implicated in more wrongdoing, or required more legislation to rein in its excesses, than the IRS, except maybe for the CIA. The problem isn’t the people, it’s the incentives. THe IRS, unlike other enforcement agencies, doesn’t have to worry much about due process. They can search your financial records without a warrant or without even probable cause, and if they decide you’ve shorted them, you are guilty until proven innocent. An entity which is set up to be tyrannical, will be tyrannical. Much as the CIA, often allowed to operate in shady ways, will operate in shady ways. By contrast, an entity which is set up with proper checks and oversight will be well behaved. So all we need to do is rein in the IRS. They should have to have probable cause to audit. No random audits. Furthermore, the burden of proof should be on them when they claim you didn’t pay enough. Finally, there should be strict limits on how long they can keep taxpayers in limbo. If an organization applies for tax exempt status and doesn’t hear back for a year, it should be granted for that tax year automatically. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/192 "2013-07-19T15:40:34Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong and you dare to, but aren’t such organizations already entitled to proceed until final adjudication is pronounced? Which sets up an interesting dynamic. Someone with sufficient means can therefore proceed to set up a totally bogus 501©4 organization, use it utterly to advance one’s political ends without so much as a pretense of “social welfare” until the game is up, then simply disband and reform another. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/193 "2013-07-19T15:44:34Z")
That assumes the IRS will be so incompetent or malevolent as to delay an application for a year. That was not normal procedure. In case you can’t tell, I don’t want the President’s head. I want the IRS defanged. And I intend to see the President enlisted in the effort. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/194 "2013-07-19T15:57:56Z")
Your party’s patrons want the IRS to be defanged as well - just not for quite the same reasons you offer. You got fooled, bud. Yet again. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/195 "2013-07-19T16:07:47Z")
The only fooling I see right now is Democrats trying to claim that the BOLO list and the infinite delays that only Tea Party orgs experienced are equivalent. It’s not even a good attempt at lying, which is why I’m surprised so many Dopers buy it. It was a trip reading that Elijah Cummings today vowed to “get to the bottom of what happened”, when all he’s been saying up to this point is that the investigation should be closed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/196 "2013-07-19T16:25:34Z")
Doesn’t matter if its a year, could be six weeks. Scrooge McDuck funnels a buttload of money into the Duckburg Tea Party, claiming tax exempt status while flauting the laws thereof. So long as his application is pending, he may proceed. When he loses, he simply dissolves, and forms the Quackberg County Tea Party, and so on and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/197 "2013-07-19T16:32:52Z")
I’m sure better men than I have attempted to sway you from your faith with measured argument Adaher. I yield to the impenetrable rock in the path and continue on my journey. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/198 "2013-07-19T20:19:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If an organization applies for tax exempt status and doesn’t hear back for a year, it should be granted for that tax year automatically. An organizations does not apply for tax exempt status; it applies for a review and verification of its tax exempt status. If an organization is not tax exempt, no amount of review will make it so. The organization can lose its status in a variety of ways, but waiting for the IRS to review the submitted form is not one of those ways. Call the IRS today and they’ll explain the entire thing to you. Since these reviews are not free, I think people believe they are entitled to a fast turnaround. However, I hesitate to assume what a “reasonable” amount of time would be to review such an application, since the organizing documents must be included and I think those could be quite a task to review. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/199 "2013-07-19T23:45:39Z")
Seemed to go pretty fast for progressive groups. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/200 "2013-07-19T23:48:45Z")
“Seemed” being the operative word, there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=11)