# HA! The IRS "Scandal" Was A Crock O' Shit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729 "2013-07-05T16:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/241 "2013-07-21T02:17:02Z")
As a strike four would get the ump thrown out of the game by the others, I can see only the right wing echo chamber now grasping at straws. > **[Fox Manufactures White House Link To IRS Controversy](https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-friends/fox-manufactures-white-house-link-irs-controversy)** > [@](#): > > USA Today also noted that the IRS chief counsel’s office is composed of 1,600 employees. > > Indeed, Issa was very clear that Wilkins himself was not personally involved. In his opening statement at the hearing, he said: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > ISSA: I hope that both my side of the aisle and the ranking member side of the aisle will be very careful and cautious in what we say. When I say something goes to the office of the counsel of the IRS, that is not to be construed as the office of the president, or to the counsel himself. It is important that we understand that words matter, nuances matter, and that we not go one step beyond what we know. > > > > ``` > > Hull’s testimony also does not show that Wilkins was personally aware of the controversy. Hull testified that he met with staffers from the counsel’s office, but made no mention of Wilkins. > > The Washington Post more broadly noted that there is no evidence from the investigations and hearings about the controversy that connects the scrutinizing to the White House: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > Key Republicans, including the oversight panel's chairman, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), said the audit findings suggested that the IRS had systematically delayed tax-exemption applications for President Obama's opponents during the 2010 and 2012 election cycles. Some GOP lawmakers suggested that high-ranking administration officials must have been involved in the alleged effort. > > > > There has been no evidence of White House involvement. > > > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/242 "2013-07-21T02:22:59Z")
So basically we’re falling back on rogue employees in the counsel’s office now. Acting alone. Employees of the counsel’s office can’t give orders to Carter Hull. Unless they are speaking for Wilkins. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/243 "2013-07-21T03:17:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So basically we’re falling back on rogue employees in the counsel’s office now. Acting alone. > > Employees of the counsel’s office can’t give orders to Carter Hull. Unless they are speaking for Wilkins. So basically you have no evidence for it, only what the blobiators at the right wing media are giving you, as the case against the dreamers demonstrated, not everything what the right media reports is golden, far from it, the racist agenda showed and never once you wondered if it was a good idea to continue to carry water for them. In this case, while the faults of the IRS are already acknowledged and the responsible were sacked or named, what the right wing is expecting now is exaggerated like what the promised results on the case against the dreamers. And the dumb part is to expect that a lot will happen now, after other respected media is reporting that there is no evidence of White House involvement. ---
**Author:** ![fudrucker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fudrucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fudrucker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/244 "2013-07-21T04:40:11Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So basically you have no evidence for it, only what the blobiators at the right wing media are giving you, You cant be serious. So far three high level IRS managers have “testified” before congress. Each one took the fifth amendment and refused to answer anything. Are there no limits to what you Marxists will do to defend government corruption? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/245 "2013-07-21T04:47:16Z")
> [@fudrucker](#): > > You cant be serious. So far three high level IRS managers have “testified” before congress. Each one took the fifth amendment and refused to answer anything. > > Are there no limits to what you Marxists will do to defend government corruption? **That is no evidence** , and that is only what a fascist would consider to be evidence proudly. BTW I´m on the record of condemning Marxists, so even there you only show to all that you are deluded. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/246 "2013-07-21T05:01:03Z")
Gigo, if we had all the evidence, the investigation would be over. That’s why it’s still going on. Thus my statement that now that we know Carter Hull wasn’t acting on his own, we have to keep going up until we find out who ordered the targeting. Now if Wilkins was supposedly unaware, we have to find out which employee in his office decided he had authority he didn’t have. That’s a pretty serious offense, an employee with no authority vested in himself taking it upon himself to order the IRS to target Tea Party groups. Of course, that’s if you believe that the answer to every scandal is a rogue employee. ---
**Author:** ![fudrucker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fudrucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fudrucker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/247 "2013-07-21T05:23:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > **That is no evidence** , and that is only what a fascist would consider to be evidence proudly. Yea sure. You trying to defend an out of control government agency who can seize your assets without a trial, yet none of their people will testify? And you’re calling _me_ names? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > BTW I´m on the record of condemning Marxists, so even there you only show to all that you are deluded. You can claim whatever you wish. Your defense of these corrupt policies is evidence enough. If you don’t have the stones to defend your political ideology, don’t come crying to me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/248 "2013-07-21T05:28:55Z")
Well, you know how those Marxists are! I don’t, myself, because even though I’ve been on the conservative wing of the extreme left most of my adult life, I don’t actually know any. Except for **Giggles**. He’s the only one I know, and that’s just because you say so. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/249 "2013-07-21T06:00:44Z")
Does anyone see the irony of someone demanding evidence before convicting the IRS, an organization that doesn’t need evidence to go after you? Expecting the IRS to prove its innocence is merely what the IRS expects of the citizenry. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/250 "2013-07-21T06:17:36Z")
Oh, well, that’s just liberal hypocrisy, we’re lousy with it. Part of why it annoys us so much when a paragon of honesty and candor like yourself shows up, and rubs our noses in it. I mean, isn’t _one_ of you guys enough? Besides, relax! The investigation is ongoing, just as you say. That smoking gub is gonna hit the news any minute now! Hours. OK, maybe a couple of days, a week. Or so. Someday. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/251 "2013-07-21T06:26:10Z")
We’ll see what Lerner has to say when she’s given immunity. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/252 "2013-07-21T06:35:21Z")
What’s the holdup? According to the “Hon.” Mr. Issa, she waived her fifth amendment rights a month ago. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/253 "2013-07-21T06:45:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Gigo, if we had all the evidence, the investigation would be over. That’s why it’s still going on. > > Thus my statement that now that we know Carter Hull wasn’t acting on his own, we have to keep going up until we find out who ordered the targeting. > > Now if Wilkins was supposedly unaware, we have to find out which employee in his office decided he had authority he didn’t have. That’s a pretty serious offense, an employee with no authority vested in himself taking it upon himself to order the IRS to target Tea Party groups. > > Of course, that’s if you believe that the answer to every scandal is a rogue employee. Nah, only workers that thought it was clever to investigate by keyword. It was bad as I also pointed out elsewhere and I thought the punishment so far was fair, except that, just like the acorn case, the investigation later showed a lot of exculpatory evidence. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/254 "2013-07-21T06:49:26Z")
> [@fudrucker](#): > > Yea sure. You trying to defend an out of control government agency who can seize your assets without a trial, yet none of their people will testify? And you’re calling _me_ names? And they have that right, only a fascist will insist that is evidence enough. > [@fudrucker](#): > > You can claim whatever you wish. Your defense of these corrupt policies is evidence enough. If you don’t have the stones to defend your political ideology, don’t come crying to me. Nope, this is the moment to notice you are a \*\*certifiable \*\*dolt for believing that that that is Marxism. And no, I’m not crying but laughing, as I pointed before Liberals do love when extremists like you are so “helpful” to your cause. Moderate republicans need to constantly learn what is the Republican party nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![fudrucker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fudrucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fudrucker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/255 "2013-07-21T07:46:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And they have that right, only a fascist will insist that is evidence enough. Yea right. We don’t need evidence. We’ll simply confiscate your property without cause. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope, this is the moment to notice you are a \*\*certifiable \*\*dolt for believing that that that is Marxism. And you would call it what? Due process? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And no, I’m not crying but laughing, as I pointed before Liberals do love when extremists like you are so “helpful” to your cause. Moderate republicans need to constantly learn what is the Republican party nowadays. Like I said, what do you call it? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/256 "2013-07-21T07:52:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What’s the holdup? According to the “Hon.” Mr. Issa, she waived her fifth amendment rights a month ago. They don’t know if they need her yet. If they don’t need her testimony, then they want to reserve the right to prosecute her. If they can’t get anywhere, then they’ll make a deal with her. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/257 "2013-07-21T07:54:05Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nah, only workers that thought it was clever to investigate by keyword. It was bad as I also pointed out elsewhere and I thought the punishment so far was fair, except that, just like the acorn case, the investigation later showed a lot of exculpatory evidence. Workers didn’t do anything except but what they were told to do. You’re sticking to an old story that has long since been discredited. Not a single worker has been demonstrated to have acted in a ‘rogue’ manner. All of them followed instructions exactly as given to them by management. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/258 "2013-07-21T15:20:29Z")
> [@fudrucker](#): > > Yea right. We don’t need evidence. We’ll simply confiscate your property without cause. No you repeated dolt offender, I was referring to the right to take the fifth. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/259 "2013-07-21T15:28:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Workers didn’t do anything except but what they were told to do. You’re sticking to an old story that has long since been discredited. Not a single worker has been demonstrated to have acted in a ‘rogue’ manner. All of them followed instructions exactly as given to them by management. Yes, and as the saying goes, one should not blame malice when incompetence will do. The point I am making is that simply the right wing propaganda machine is right now overreaching on what to get from this, and I am only pointing out that with this ¨silly¨ item of presumed innocence it is more reasonable to expect very little else and one should demand the sources of information one has to gain some perspective. Otherwise, as in the ACORN case, the rotten behavior of your sources of information is ignored as it is the exculpatory evidence of the ones that were sacked thanks to people like Issa or FOX news. > **[Report: James O'Keefe To Pay $100K Settlement To Former ACORN Employee](https://www.mediamatters.org/breitbart-news/report-james-okeefe-pay-100k-settlement-former-acorn-employee)** > [@](#): > > According to court documents obtained by Wonkette, conservative activist James O’Keefe has agreed to a $100,000 settlement in a lawsuit filed against him by Juan Carlos Vera, a former employee of ACORN. Vera filed the suit against O’Keefe in 2010, alleging O’Keefe had illegally taped their conversation at an ACORN office in California as part of his fraudulent “exposé” of the community activist group. > > Vera was one of the ACORN employees portrayed in O’Keefe’s videos as offering assistance in setting up a nonexistent child prostitution ring. After his encounter with O’Keefe, Vera contacted the police to report “possible human smuggling,” unaware that he had been duped. Vera claims he lost his job as a result of O’Keefe’s deception after the conservative’s video of their encounter was posted on a Breitbart website. > > According to the settlement documents obtained by Wonkette, O’Keefe has agreed to “pay Vera $100,000.00,” and that “as part of this settlement O’Keefe states that at the time of the publication of the video of Juan Carlos Vera he was unaware of Vera’s claims to have notified a police officer of the incident. O’Keefe regrets any pain suffered by Mr. Vera or his family.” ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/260 "2013-07-21T18:27:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They don’t know if they need her yet. If they don’t need her testimony, then they want to reserve the right to prosecute her. If they can’t get anywhere, then they’ll make a deal with her. Who is this “they” with prosecutorial power? CMC fnord! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=14)