# HA! The IRS "Scandal" Was A Crock O' Shit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729 "2013-07-05T16:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/61 "2013-07-07T08:51:12Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I don’t know if I’d call Angela Merkel a potentate, exactly. [“a person who possesses great power, as a sovereign, monarch, or ruler”](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/potentate?s=t) I’d say Chancellor of Germany fits that definition. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/62 "2013-07-07T08:59:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The words Dana Milbank used were, “A bystander in his own administration”. No, they weren’t. Dana Milbank has never used that phrase to describe Obama or anyone else. And he’s hardly an objective source for a view on President Obama’s performance: Yale University alum and Skull & Bones member who’s basically made a living since January 2009 criticizing Obama and his administration. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/63 "2013-07-07T14:23:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Please submit your Certificate of Telepathy for our inspection. He’s thinking it at you as hard as he can. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/64 "2013-07-07T15:03:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He had access to intelligence that said, “Al Qaeda determined to strike inside US”. Very helpful. This didn’t happen long enough ago for you to misrepresent it this baldly, and especially with fake “quotes.” The intelligence briefing issued 36 days before 9/11 was that Bin Laden had Al Qaeda agents in the United States to hijack an aircraft. This followed a July 2001 memo from the FBI recommending investigation of civil aviation schools to find terrorists sent by Osama Bin Laden to train as pilots. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/65 "2013-07-07T15:23:28Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Hasn’t **John Mace** sort of railroaded this discussion into the thickets of irrelevant detail? > > The point of the OP, as I read it, isn’t that Obama turned out not to be involved. The point is the wider one that there is no scandal at all, at least, no left/right political scandal. Some people in the IRS made a mistake, but not a scandalous one that disproportionately affects people of any particular political stripe. That’s the story here–the story that somehow the IRS was targeting conservative groups, with or without Obama’s blessing, under or not under his oversight, turns out to be false from the get go. Eh. If the OP wanted this to be a discussion of the “wider issue” he shouldn’t have made his only validating piece of evidence the fact that some Republican said Obama wasn’t involved. If he chooses to move the goal post, that’s fine going forward. I was responding to the OP as written, not how you might have wanted it to be written. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/66 "2013-07-07T17:15:50Z")
Uh, guys, can we please set the bar a little higher than Bush? Just sayin is all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/67 "2013-07-07T17:19:03Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > He’s thinking it at you as hard as he can. Aside: Saw a bumper sticker yesterday: “Think about honking if you (heart) conceptual art.” ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/68 "2013-07-07T18:02:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Never said it was. The seriousness of the wrongdoing is not relevant to the responsibility for the wrongdoing. > > Although you have to admit, Bush wasn’t in the habit of blaming his underlings for failures. That’s all Obama ever does. You’ve got to be fucking kidding me! The guy who, when he was directly asked about regrets, said that the only one he could think of was trading Sammy Sosa? Who looked at his reelection as his “accountability moment,” like it was some kind of responsibility white out? Who keeps saying that only history will be able to judge his presidency? Who gamed the interactive display at his presidential library so that you cannot correct his mistakes? That’s your model for responsibility? Some day you should try not being a partisan stooge. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/69 "2013-07-07T18:21:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > That’s your model for responsibility? Some day you should try not being a partisan stooge. He would vanish in a puff of smoke if he ever did. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/70 "2013-07-07T18:28:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Told ya so! Told ya so! Neener neener neener, told ya so! From your cite: > [@](#): > > Blunt said. “I don’t have any reason to believe there wasn’t targeting of conservatives, but it might well have been a lot more than that as well.” I don’t know what he was trying to say, but what he _did_ say doesn’t seem like a reason to turn handsprings. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/71 "2013-07-07T21:19:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Tsarnaev and Nidal Hasan, both of whom were detected by law enforcement as potential problems. There are something like 800 people on that list, none of which, including the Tsarnaevs, had any probable cause to arrest them. What would you have the authorities, put them all in the pokey, just in case? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/72 "2013-07-07T22:34:59Z")
Having one Republican concede that Obama was likely not in his opinion directly responsible for sicking the IRS on conservative groups, does not translate in my mind to “The IRS Scandal Was A Crock Of Shit, Neener Neener”. The contention commonly made by the right wing has been that Obama and Co.'s attacks on Tea Party/right wing groups encouraged functionaries at the IRS to go after said groups to please their boss. Debatable certainly, but not the same as the same as claiming that the White House conspired to punish its political enemies through the IRS. > [@elucidator](#): > > insufficiently diligent oversight This is a nice bit of phraseology. Not nearly as good as when the Watergate conspirators were admitting to being “overzealous”, but nifty nonetheless. And no, I don’t think the IRS brouhaha is comparable to Watergate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/73 "2013-07-07T22:46:13Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There are something like 800 people on that list, none of which, including the Tsarnaevs, had any probable cause to arrest them. What would you have the authorities, put them all in the pokey, just in case? No, just saying that all that surveillance doesn’t accomplish much given the fact that we can’t arrest people until they actually do something or are in the stages of planning something. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/74 "2013-07-07T22:48:48Z")
Ddamn! Due process screwing things up again, huh? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/75 "2013-07-07T22:55:16Z")
Again, just saying the surveillance isn’t worth much, which I think most liberals would agree with me on if it was any other President doing it. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/76 "2013-07-07T22:57:25Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Having one Republican concede that Obama was likely not in his opinion directly responsible for sicking the IRS on conservative groups, does not translate in my mind to “The IRS Scandal Was A Crock Of Shit, Neener Neener”. > > The contention commonly made by the right wing has been that Obama and Co.'s attacks on Tea Party/right wing groups encouraged functionaries at the IRS to go after said groups to please their boss. Debatable certainly, but not the same as the same as claiming that the White House conspired to punish its political enemies through the IRS.This is a nice bit of phraseology. So guilty until they can come up with proof of their innocence? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/77 "2013-07-07T22:58:49Z")
The government isn’t innocent until proven guilty. The government has to prove it is innocent. That’s the responsibility that comes with power. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/78 "2013-07-07T23:01:01Z")
I would probably cite more headline news on the scandal spreading like mildfire, but there isn’t any. Nobody is likely to make a headline out of “Darryl Assa shuts his festering gob!”. Which is rather telling, considering his level of, ah, _involvement_, shall we say. And the fallback position of where the bucks stops is industrial strength buttwhistle. Sure, the top guy in the executive is ultimately responsible. But galaxies can turn comfortably in the distance between that sort of passive failure of oversight and the original craptastic allegations and insinuations. So as a fallback position, that is some weak-ass shit. How much responsibility rests on Obama because the FDA didn’t stop AssWhole Foods from selling listeria cheese? > [@](#): > > …This is a nice bit of phraseology… So steal, already. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/79 "2013-07-07T23:12:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The government isn’t innocent until proven guilty. The government has to prove it is innocent. That’s the responsibility that comes with power. In your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/80 "2013-07-07T23:12:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The government isn’t innocent until proven guilty. The government has to prove it is innocent. That’s the responsibility that comes with power. So you assume that everything Issa makes up is true and that it’s up to the government to convince you otherwise. Great. But here’s the Captain Kirk Mindfuck—Issa is also part of the government. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=5)