# HA! The IRS "Scandal" Was A Crock O' Shit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729 "2013-07-05T16:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/101 "2013-07-09T15:42:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well, I was outraged over the “scandal,” then when the facts came out (rather than the Republican versiojn of the facts), I apologized for beating up on the IRS and moved on. > > At this point I am having some trouble distinguishing between James O Keefe and conservative media and politicians generally. The facts haven’t come out yet, the investigation is still ongoing. And the facts that supposedly exonerate the IRS do no such thing. Progressive groups were not targeted, period. In fact, the attempt by Werfel to defuse the scandal in such a lame way should foster further suspicion. The IRS has been anything but transparent, which means they are hiding their guilt. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/102 "2013-07-09T17:22:22Z")
“The investigation is still ongoing”? Really? Well, can you give us a briefing on recent developments and revelations? We do have one, by way of our good friends at _Talking Points Memo_: [http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/07/mike\_kelly\_irs\_angles.php?ref=fpblg](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/07/mike_kelly_irs_angles.php?ref=fpblg) You’ll have to read it, as I fear I cannot do it justice. Something about how this horrific scandal ties in directly with the NSA leaks and the fact that the Hon. Mr. Kelly’s auto dealership was shut down during the auto industry restructuring, and he’s pretty sure its because he’s a Republican. Or something. And have you noticed how awfully quiet Mr. Issa is these days? Is he pausing for dramatic effect, lulling us into complacency before he drops his huge ass bombshell? No, no, that can’t be it, that wouldn’t be transparent, which means, according to the _ **adaher** principle_, he’s hiding his guilt. Or, he’s got nothin’. I’m leaning towards that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/103 "2013-07-09T17:54:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The IRS has been anything but transparent, which means they are hiding their guilt. The IRS is not allowed by law, to be transparent. Not even to Congress. This was the brunt of the so-called Taxpayer Bills of Rights hearings in the Senate, when various “Taxpayers’ came in and accused the IRS of being nasties, and the IRS could not refute their stories with the actual facts as doing so would be a felony. And Congress would not grant the IRS immunity for that. So, if a IRS spokesperson said what occurred, giving names etc, he’d be sent to prison. Thus, the IRS can not be “transparent”. Unless Congress gives immunity, which of course they won’t do as they aren’t interesting in the facts. They just want to pull the teeth of the IRS as it’s the one agency that scares the right white guys- and at the same time embarrass the Obama administration. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/104 "2013-07-09T18:02:00Z")
Hmmm. Wondering if by any chance that’s the reason Whats-her-face plead the Fifth? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/105 "2013-07-09T18:38:29Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > All these Tea Party groups should not have been given Tax Exempt Status ACCORDING TO THE ACTUAL WORDING OF THE LAW… “Exclusively” doing social work or education. Calling Obama a Socialist is not social welfare. Thank you for posting this, although it seems only you, me, and Lawrence O’Donnell give a shit about it. The scandal isn’t that anyone was delayed getting their tax-exempt status. The scandal is that they ever got it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/106 "2013-07-09T18:40:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The IRS has been anything but transparent, which means they are hiding their guilt. Really?? That’s the only explanation for why a government agency won’t answer every question posed by special interest groups whose goal is to get rid of the IRS? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/107 "2013-07-09T18:40:33Z")
> [@](#): > > …it seems only you, me, and Lawrence O’Donnell give a shit about it… Chiming in, I am also very interested in this particular little wrinkle. By what authority does the IRS install a “regulation” than overturns a law? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/108 "2013-07-09T20:11:46Z")
The FBI is still investigating, for starters. At least that’s what they say. And of course we still don’t know who ordered the targeting. Until that is revealed, the issue isn’t settled. Then there’s the ancillary issues, like how Austen Goolsbee got the Kochs’ tax returns. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/109 "2013-07-09T20:44:31Z")
First off, the FBI is investigating. So? Are we to assume that an investigation is a sure sign of something? And who ordered the targeting? Have you any proof that the “targeting” was “ordered” by anybody? Aren’t these people supposed to investigate, find out if the 501©4 exemption is justified? And as far as Mr Goolsbee goes, is that really within the purview of this investigation? Or are you just hoping to drag in whatever floats past your eyes? And yes, as a matter of fact, I’d very much like to know how much of the various Tea Party entities are supported by dues paying grass roots morons, and how much is paid by a bunch of rich guys (like the Koch Brothers, boo, hiss) who love, love, love a tax exempt way to turn their money into political power. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/110 "2013-07-09T20:55:49Z")
There is no legal means by which Goolsbee could gain access to the Kochs’ tax returns, so yes, that’s an issue. And as far as the FBI investigation goes, it’s ongoing, and all I said was that it’s not over yet. A criminal investigation by definition means there’s still a scandal. Not to mention high officials in the IRS got fired, which means there was wrongdoing. Unless of course you think the President threw people under the bus who did nothing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/111 "2013-07-09T21:00:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There is no legal means by which Goolsbee could gain access to the Kochs’ tax returns, so yes, that’s an issue. You’re pretty deep down the rabbit hole on this particular scandal-theory. Why don’t you start with why you think Goolsbee had a copy of their tax returns, as opposed to any other source of information or speculation about their tax status? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/112 "2013-07-09T21:04:07Z")
> [@](#): > > …Unless of course you think the President threw people under the bus who did nothing wrong. Yes. That’s exactly what I think, I think they panicked. If it were me, I would find a way to leak how much rich folks money goes into keeping the Tea Party afloat (such as it is, which doesn’t seem to amount to much these days…). I don’t think the average American would much cotton to the idea of rich guys funneling their money into politics, and getting to do it anonymously and tax-exempt. What, am I supposed to be shocked that The Obama fucked up? He fucked up a lot, the biggest one so far being trying to treat the Republican Party like grown-ups. Next to that, this is chickenfeed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/113 "2013-07-09T21:12:52Z")
By the way, the officials who were underbussed? Weren’t they Bushiviks? So, maybe he gets to replace them with somebody more to his liking? What? No, not The One, he doesn’t do shit like that, too sneaky. Kinda wish he would. Sorta. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/114 "2013-07-09T21:42:02Z")
> [@XT](#): > > That quote wasn’t from me. Just saying. Hrmm. There was a broken quote marker somewhere and you ended up as the poster when i linked it. Looking back, it would be an odd thing for you to say. > [@elucidator](#): > > Hmmm. Wondering if by any chance that’s the reason Whats-her-face plead the Fifth? No, she could have just said that she is not allowed to divulge taxpayer information under section 6103. She was being investigated by the FBI, taking the 5th is what any competent attorney would advise you to do and you would be stupid not to take the advice. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Thank you for posting this, although it seems only you, me, and Lawrence O’Donnell give a shit about it. The scandal isn’t that anyone was delayed getting their tax-exempt status. The scandal is that they ever got it at all. This started a long time ago. 501(c)(4) has been a cover for politically active organizations for a long time. > [@elucidator](#): > > Chiming in, I am also very interested in this particular little wrinkle. By what authority does the IRS install a “regulation” than overturns a law? They generally have more success interpreting laws more favorably towards taxpayers than more strictly. > [@adaher](#): > > Then there’s the ancillary issues, like how Austen Goolsbee got the Kochs’ tax returns. This is the second time you’ve mentioned this. I linked the only article I could find on the subject and it was about Goolsbee referring to Koch’s corporate structure and its use of S corps and shit like that. Not exactly stuff that is limited to tax returns. > [@adaher](#): > > There is no legal means by which Goolsbee could gain access to the Kochs’ tax returns, so yes, that’s an issue. Once again, wtf are you talking about? > [@](#): > > Not to mention high officials in the IRS got fired, which means there was wrongdoing. Unless of course you think the President threw people under the bus who did nothing wrong. Do you remember that black woman at the department of agriculture that got fired when a doctored video made her look like a racist? > **[Firing of Shirley Sherrod](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_of_Shirley_Sherrod)** > > On July 19, 2010, Shirley Sherrod was fired from her appointed position as Georgia State Director of Rural Development for the United States Department of Agriculture. Her firing was an administration reaction to media reports on video excerpts from her address to an event of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People in March 2010 and commentary posted by conservative blogger Andrew Breitbart on his website. Based on these excerpts, the NAACP condemned Sherrod's rem Extensiv... Obama is a coward and he is not reluctant to throw his subordinates under the bus. In fact that seems to be his first instinct. > [@elucidator](#): > > By the way, the officials who were underbussed? Weren’t they Bushiviks? So, maybe he gets to replace them with somebody more to his liking? What? No, not The One, he doesn’t do shit like that, too sneaky. Kinda wish he would. Sorta. The people who were thrown under the bus were career bureaucrats. The IRS commissioner that was thrown under the bus was former deputy IRS commissioner who stepped in as IRS commissioner after the rpevious one resigned. The IRS acticivites that are under scrutiny took place under a Bush appointee but he wasn’t a particularly partisan fellow either, IRS commissioners generally aren’t. They are pretty proud of it. [Donald Alexander - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Alexander) The One throws people under the bus because he is too eager to placate extreme right conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/115 "2013-07-09T21:54:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Thank you for posting this, although it seems only you, me, and Lawrence O’Donnell give a shit about it. The scandal isn’t that anyone was delayed getting their tax-exempt status. The scandal is that they ever got it at all. So many were defending the angry Tea Party whiner testifying in Congress who claimed she could hear the ‘snapping sounds’ of the IRS jackboots of tyranny because her application was delayed. Bringing reality to a discussion here at times finds little interest. I wonder if they stiil insist this mistake/ non-mistake is a scandal. Brent Bozell just told Hannity that the IRS matter is a scandal. So We’ve been told if one person says it is a scandal then it must be a scandal. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/116 "2013-07-09T22:20:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Do you remember that black woman at the department of agriculture that got fired when a doctored video made her look like a racist? > > [Firing of Shirley Sherrod - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_of_Shirley_Sherrod) > > Obama is a coward and he is not reluctant to throw his subordinates under the bus. In fact that seems to be his first instinct. From the Wiki link. > [@](#): > > Based on these excerpts, **the NAACP condemned Sherrod’s remarks as racist and U.S. government officials called on the official to resign.** But, when the story was understood to be about the NAACP audience reaction to Sherrod’s story, and not Sherrod at all, the\*\* NAACP, White House officials, and Tom Vilsack, the United States Secretary of Agriculture, apologized for the firing and offered Sherrod a new position.\*\* > [@](#): > > **The Obama administration apologized to Sherrod, and offered her a full-time, high-level internal advocacy position with the USDA,which she ultimately declined.** ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/117 "2013-07-10T00:52:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > This thread is an opportunity for you tighty-righty Ricky Retardos… I’m all for insulting appropriate targets in the Pit but this left a bad taste in my mouth. Call 'em lying sacks of shit, make 'em cry, just don’t slur unrelated groups in the same breath. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/118 "2013-07-10T06:58:30Z")
I’m not a nice person, scolding me is a waste of your time. ---
**Author:** ![fudrucker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fudrucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fudrucker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/119 "2013-07-10T07:31:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Told ya so! Told ya so! Neener neener neener, told ya so! > > This thread is an opportunity for you tighty-righty Ricky Retardos to line up and apologize for being such total dipshits as to believe this crapopalooza! I love how you lefties are so long on mouth and short on facts. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/120 "2013-07-10T11:06:24Z")
> [@fudrucker](#): > > I love how you lefties are so long on mouth and short on facts. Is this a real live righty throwing down the gauntlet that Rep Issa and histerical jackboot citing Tea Bagger types can be defended by something that can be recognized as facts? My my that is quite bold. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=7)