# HA! The IRS "Scandal" Was A Crock O' Shit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729 "2013-07-05T16:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/141 "2013-07-13T03:51:55Z")
And lets not forget that this administration has at its head a candidate who made a habit of trying to intimidate political opponents during elections by urging that they be investigated by the FEC. Think he abandoned that instinct when he became President? Judging by his election rhetoric in 2010 and 2012, it sure doesn’t sound like it. He called these groups shady and possibly illegal. The entire government apparently got the message, because there’s been reports of many agencies treating conservatives and liberals differently. From little things like the EPA charging conservative groups for reports that they don’t charge liberal groups for, to individual Republican donors coming under investigation by the ATF and the EPA AND the IRS. We’re only scratching the surface here. And the sad part is, the President never had to give an order. He could just spew hate in public and they’d get the message. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/142 "2013-07-13T06:40:22Z")
Who will rid us of this meddlesome pest? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/143 "2013-07-13T13:40:12Z")
You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. The depth of gullibility and desperation to see a shred of substance in moonlight would be laughable if it didn’t inspire pity. Can you imagine what it must have been like dealing with adaher through the years? “No, adaher, really, trust us. This has been going on for weeks now, you just have to accept the fact that mommy and daddy have been buying you presents all along. There. Is. No. Santa. You can’t go to school as a fifteen year old and keep insisting you know better.” “Um, adaher, that’s kind of the joke, really. There’s a huge organization behind it that works out the basics of who will do what and how. Oh, nevermind, you’re right, professional wrestling is real.” “Adaher, please stop sending checks through the mail like that. I know the prince is just about to relase his millions to you, but something is just _wrong_. You’re bankrupting us.” I think my favourite part of this whole train wreck has been the meek insinuation that the tea party was just actually just a group of apolitical activists seeking to educate people about the complexities the Constitution. So very pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/144 "2013-07-13T14:09:20Z")
And as I said, the IRS didn’t suddenly get interested in looking at these groups until the Tea Party came along. Explain that one. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/145 "2013-07-13T14:11:56Z")
Might want to refresh your memory as to which came into existence when, bub. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/146 "2013-07-13T14:17:19Z")
[New documents show Occupy groups also on IRS watch list](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/07/12/irs-occupy-groups/2511541/) [IRS scandal less than it seemed; Liberal groups also scrutinized](http://www.kentucky.com/2013/07/10/2709355/irs-scandal-less-than-it-seemed.html) [Nonconservative Groups Say IRS Scrutinized Them, Too](http://www.npr.org/2013/05/19/185206908/nonconservative-groups-say-irs-scrutinized-them-too) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/147 "2013-07-13T14:18:46Z")
The watch list, and sending applications to DC where they were never heard from again, are two different things. Plus one of your own links explains the difference: \*\*But the documents also suggest that the Internal Revenue Service saw the Tea Party as a separate class. The notes of a July 28, 2010, workshop in Cincinnati, for example, instructed front-line screeners to “err on the side of caution” and “re-emphasize” that all potential political groups were to be marked for more investigation. The notes also said that “‘Progressive’ applications are not considered ‘Tea Parties.’” Tea Parties, patriot groups and groups affiliated with the conservative “9/12 project” were kept on an “emerging issues” list that caused their applications to be held up for 27 months even as progressive groups had their tax exemptions approved. Another key word revealed in the documents for the first time is “pink-slip program,” an apparent reference to a conservative movement to “send Congress a pink slip” by voting members out of office.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/148 "2013-07-13T14:20:06Z")
Hell, I’m still trying to understand how Obama sends messages to his minions. > [@](#): > > …He could just spew hate in public and they’d get the message… Did he purge all the Republicans from the IRS? _And_ the EPA, _and_ the FEC, _and_ the ATF? And when these memos went down from some anonymous mid-level _apparatchik_, nobody got on the phone to Hannity or Fox? Oh, wait, there were no such memos, right, he did it by secret signals in his hate spew! Forgot that part. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/149 "2013-07-13T14:21:14Z")
They weren’t secret signals. He said quite specifically that these groups were “shady” and should be investigated. ---
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/150 "2013-07-13T14:25:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And as I said, the IRS didn’t suddenly get interested in looking at these groups until the Tea Party came along. > > Explain that one. That’s strange… My first IRS audit occurred a decade before the Tea Party “came along”… They had this list of attributes that flag returns and damn it if claiming your kid as Head of Household the first time when they were seven didn’t get me culled out for a closer look to see if everything was kosher. I was profiled!!( I feel so violated …) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/151 "2013-07-13T14:26:56Z")
That’s a different issue. Of course they were auditing people. And they were doing it with so little respect for the Constitution that they got smacked down by the GOP in a 1998 reform bill. So we know they have a history of shadiness already. I doubt anyone would dispute that much, unless you’re part of the 10 percenters who love the IRS because you really love federal revenue. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/152 "2013-07-13T16:36:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > unless you’re part of the 10 percenters who love the IRS because you really love federal revenue. “I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilization.” ― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/153 "2013-07-13T21:31:55Z")
We had civilization with much lower taxes than we do now. Taxes nowadays go mostly to simply transfer money from taxpayer to beneficiary. The taxes that pay for civilization(roads, bridges, police, courts) is an ever-shrinking portion of the budget. Anyway, I have to say I’m pretty annoyed that the vaunted Dopers are not seeing straight through the obvious partisan attempt to muddy the waters on the IRS targeting scandal. The difference between simply calling for all political groups to receive scrutiny in meetings and actually delaying their applications for years by sending them to DC is like night and day. All the DC office had to do was NOT interfere with the Cincinnati workers and everything would have been fine. The Cincinnati workers followed instructions EXACTLY. They did scrutinize liberal applications along with conservative applications, but as instructed, sent all Tea Party applications to DC, where they disappeared without a trace. Meanwhile, progressive applications were scrutinized, fairly, and quickly approved. Given what we know now, Lois Lerner and the White House’s attempt to blame Cincinnati employees looks particularly dirty. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/154 "2013-07-13T21:38:05Z")
I’m sorry, **adaher** , but given your track record and obvious disconnection with any kind of reality, I actually find that you arguing for any particular side of an issue makes me instantly assume that side is full of bullshit, inaccuracy and general malice. Just an FYI. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/155 "2013-07-13T21:48:25Z")
Wow, great argument there. If you can’t argue the facts, argue the poster. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/156 "2013-07-13T21:48:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > All the DC office had to do was NOT interfere with the Cincinnati workers and everything would have been fine. The Cincinnati workers followed instructions EXACTLY.\*\* They did scrutinize liberal applications along with conservative applications, but as instructed, sent all Tea Party applications to DC, where they disappeared without a trace.\*\* Meanwhile, progressive applications were scrutinized, fairly, and quickly approved. [According to this](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/16/contradicting-irs-claims-d-c-supervisor-personally-scrutinized-tea-party-tax-exempt-applications/)(and this is a source from your side), that’s not true. > [@](#): > > Paz provided no evidence that senior IRS officials ordered agents to target conservative groups or that anyone in the Obama administration outside the IRS was involved. > Instead, Paz described an agency in which IRS supervisors in Washington worked closely with agents in the field but didn’t fully understand what those agents were doing.\*\* Paz said agents in Cincinnati openly talked about handling “tea party” cases, but she thought the term was merely shorthand for all applications from groups that were politically active – conservative and liberal.\*\* > \*\*Paz said dozens of tea party applications _sat untouched for more than a year while field agents waited for guidance from Washington on how to handle them._ At the time, she said, Washington officials thought the agents in Cincinnati were processing the cases. Sounds to me like they never got near DC. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/157 "2013-07-13T21:52:13Z")
That’s what Paz says. The Cincinnati employees said the applications were sent. Paz is fired. The Cincinnati employees are still working. So far the score is 5 DC employees canned, zero Cincinnati employees. So who is probably lying? Now I will grant that this could be as you say, simply incompetence. However, if it is incompetence, isn’t it odd that they aren’t being transparent, that stories keep on shifting? And why slowwalk the initial internal investigation until after the 2012 elections? It was probably political because it smells political. And the IRS has done as little as possible to prove it wasn’t engaged in wrongdoing. Ironic, considering this is the one part of the government that can declare you guilty and you have to prove yourself innocent. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/158 "2013-07-14T01:42:20Z")
You didn’t tell us why Paz was fired. Not entirely sure she was, since “Paz fired” googled give us all Breitbart, Daily Caller, Fox News, Washington Times… You may regard such sources as the very font of candor and truth, but permit the rest of us our doubts. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/159 "2013-07-14T02:01:34Z")
Sorry, “administrative leave”. Except she’s been replaced, so it would seem unlikely that she’ll be back. Still no Cincinnati employees either fired, placed on leave, or even reprimanded. Unless you count the President rushing to blame them. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/160 "2013-07-14T02:09:28Z")
Thank god. If there is one thing that changes the opinions of authoritarian xenophobes it is facts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=9)