# HA! The IRS "Scandal" Was A Crock O' Shit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729 "2013-07-05T16:35:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/161 "2013-07-14T02:12:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sorry, “administrative leave”. Except she’s been replaced, so it would seem unlikely that she’ll be back. > > Still no Cincinnati employees either fired, placed on leave, or even reprimanded.\*\* Unless you count the President rushing to blame them.\*\* Cite? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/162 "2013-07-14T04:48:11Z")
Jay Carney: “There were line employees at the IRS who improperly targeted conservative groups.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/163 "2013-07-14T06:02:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Jay Carney: “There were line employees at the IRS who improperly targeted conservative groups.” Well, yes, in that they improperly targeted groups for a semi-audit based entirely upon the name. This was an improper short cut. They shouldn’t have done that. Big deal. meh. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/164 "2013-07-14T06:08:19Z")
They didn’t do it. Management did. The Cincinnati employees were doing exactly what they were told to do. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/165 "2013-07-14T06:17:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Jay Carney: “There were line employees at the IRS who improperly targeted conservative groups.” > [@](#): > > **On May 10** , in advance of the public release of the audit findings, Director of the IRS Exempt Organizations division Lois Lerner answered what was later revealed to be a planted question by stating that the IRS was “apologetic” for what she termed “absolutely inappropriate” actions. (Lerner’s superior, then-Acting IRS Commissioner Steven Miller, later testified to Congress that he had discussed with Lerner how she was to make the revelation and apology using a planted question at a meeting of the American Bar Association rather than during an appearance two days earlier before the House Ways & Means Committee in Congress.) **She asserted that the targeting had not been centrally planned and had been done by lower-level “front line people” in the Cincinnati office.** > [@](#): > > **On May 12** , Republican and Democratic lawmakers called for a full investigation of the Internal Revenue Service, while White House Press Secretary Jay Carney called the IRS’s alleged actions “inappropriate.” > [@](#): > > **On May 13** , the Washington Post reported that Marcus Owens, head of the IRS department examining tax-exempt groups in 1990-1999, said that the IRS routinely categorized similar groups which sought the status of social welfare organizations. At a May 13 press conference, President Obama called the charges “outrageous” if true, and said that anyone found to be responsible for such actions should be held accountable. > [@](#): > > **On May 14** , the Inspector General’s audit report was made public. President Obama released a statement saying that "The IRS must apply the law in a fair and impartial way, and its employees must act with utmost integrity. This report shows that some of its employees failed that test. [All from here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_IRS_scandal) Your quote was from May 20, not exactly a rush to blame. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/166 "2013-07-17T23:39:28Z")
From our good friends at ThinkProgress [http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/07/17/2318421/treasury-inspector-general-blocked-irs-from-releasing-documents-that-show-agency-targeted-progressive-groups/](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/07/17/2318421/treasury-inspector-general-blocked-irs-from-releasing-documents-that-show-agency-targeted-progressive-groups/) \*\*Treasury Inspector General Blocked IRS From Releasing Documents That Show Agency Targeted Progressive Groups \*\* This must be that bombshell revelation that **adaher** is waiting for! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/167 "2013-07-18T00:16:33Z")
And latest news is that the IRS let confidential tax records leak, in one case intentionally, and the DOJ declined to prosecute. Think Progress, as often is the case, distorts the facts, elucidator. Progressive groups were not treated like Tea Party groups. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/168 "2013-07-18T00:27:08Z")
Well, that certainly settles that! My sources are biased, you say? In your haste, however, you neglected to include your own utterly non-biased sources. Tsk. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/169 "2013-07-18T01:07:02Z")
Didn’t need to. Unless these documents say something new, we already know that progressive groups received appropriate scrutiny, while Tea Party groups received extra scrutiny and experienced delays of years. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/170 "2013-07-18T01:19:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And latest news is that the IRS let confidential tax records leak, in one case intentionally, and the DOJ declined to prosecute. > > Think Progress, as often is the case, distorts the facts, elucidator. Progressive groups were not treated like Tea Party groups. > [@elucidator](#): > > Well, that certainly settles that! My sources are biased, you say? In your haste, however, you neglected to include your own utterly non-biased sources. Tsk. You seem to have neglected your own sources. As usual. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/171 "2013-07-18T02:24:47Z")
I tell ya, you guys hear a few days of quiet and think it’s over or something: > **[IRS chief counsel’s office involved in targeting controversy](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2013/07/17/irs-chief-counsel-involved-in-targeting-controversy/)** > > The new information comes from a congressional interview with an IRS attorney. The chief counsel’s office for the Internal Revenue Service, headed by a political appointee of President Obama, helped develop the agency’s problematic guidelines for reviewing “tea party” cases, according to a top IRS attorney. In interviews with congressional investigators, IRS lawyer Carter Hull said his superiors told him that the chief counsel’s office, led by William Wilkins, would need to review some of the first applications the agency screened for additional scrutiny because of potential political activity. Ah, so now we’re up to a political appointee of the President. Who of course was acting entirely on his own. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/172 "2013-07-18T02:38:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/07/17/irs-chief-counsel-involved-in-targeting-controversy/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/07/17/irs-chief-counsel-involved-in-targeting-controversy/) > > Ah, so now we’re up to a political appointee of the President. Who of course was acting entirely on his own. From your link. > [@](#): > > No evidence so far has definitively linked the White House to the agency’s actions. You seem to have forgotten that the IRS chief when this happened was a Bush appointee. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/173 "2013-07-18T02:45:27Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > You seem to have neglected your own sources. As usual. Whaddaya talking? Said it was ThinkProgress, linked it, and **adaher** even commented on it derisively, So, WTF? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/174 "2013-07-18T02:47:00Z")
No evidence yet, thus the reason for an investigation. Now we know that the IRS’s chief counsel office was involved. We should find out more about that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/175 "2013-07-18T02:56:59Z")
Yeah, maybe he knows something about Benghazi too. A twofer! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/176 "2013-07-18T03:05:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Whaddaya talking? Said it was ThinkProgress, linked it, and **adaher** even commented on it derisively, So, WTF? That was directed to **adaher**. I didn’t notice the quotes were in the wrong order. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/177 "2013-07-18T03:14:34Z")
Never happened. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/178 "2013-07-18T18:28:35Z")
> **[Inspector says IRS withheld info on targeting liberals](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/07/18/irs-tea-party-hearing/2551339/)** > > Charges and countercharges fly at seventh hearing on IRS targeting controversy. Yep. It was the counsel’s office. Good thing we didn’t consider the investigation settled as Democrats demanded. \*\*Two Internal Revenue Service employees responsible for handling tax-exempt applications from Tea Party groups testified Thursday about how those applications were held up by high-level IRS lawyers. Elizabeth Hofacre, a specialist in the Cincinnati office, said Tea Party groups got caught up in an unusual process in which lawyers in Washington controlled every step of the process. “I was frustrated because of what I perceived as micromanagement with respect to these applications,” she told the House Oversight Committee on Thursday. The Washington attorney tasked with advising Hofacre on those applications, Carter Hull, said the holdup came from above. “I was awaiting word from chief counsel about how to proceed,” he said. The Chief Counsel’s Office is a unit of 1,600 IRS employees that are the tax agency’s top lawyers.\*\* So not only is it the counsel’s office, it was the chief counsel calling the shots. And guess who appoints the chief counsel? The President. What are the chances that a direct appointee of the President was doing this entirely on his own? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/179 "2013-07-18T18:32:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No evidence yet, thus the reason for an investigation. Now we know that the IRS’s chief counsel office was involved. We should find out more about that. By all means. I’d be shocked if this resulted in anything more than more underbussing by Obama and an embrassment for the Rwepublican party when it turns out to be much ado about nothing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729/180 "2013-07-18T18:33:59Z")
> [@](#): > > …What are the chances that a direct appointee of the President was doing this entirely on his own? How about we start at 100% until you show evidence otherwise? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ha-the-irs-scandal-was-a-crock-o-shit/662729.md?page=10)