# "....Had a Falling-Out with Walt Disney" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 26, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786 "2021-04-26T13:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/1 "2021-04-26T13:08:43Z")
I keep running across this phrase. I know that he had a reputation as a dictatorial leader, and some say he used to fire employees on the spot. But I’m surprised at the number of key people who left Disney rather than try to continue working with him. Or the number of key people he simply couldn’t compromise with. And, ironically, the number that came back to him later. In most cases the words “falling out” are used, although no reason for the breakup is generally given. Nor for the return. **Ub Iwerks** – definitely the most important of this group. A better animator than Disney, he arguably created Mickey Mouse. He certainly drew him better than Walt. they knew each other even before their days at that incubator of cartoon art, the Kansas City Film ad Company, having previously worked together at another ad company, and having founded their own short-lived company. he was Disney’s chief animator at the short-lived Laugh-o-Gram company and later at yet another venture that became Disney’s studio in California. after the Oswald the Rabbit debacle (Iwerls designed Oswald, too) and the birth of Mickey Mouse, thinghs seemed to be going well, but Iwerks was annoyed that Disney wasn’t giving him credit for his work. The two separated in 1930, supposedly after Disney asked him to draw Mickey for a fan. He started his own studio, making Flip the Frog and Willie Whopper cartoons, but they were never a big success. Some critics claimed he was never really funny, despite his technical excellence (He hired Chuck Jones as a Cel Washer). he worked for Warner Brothers for a time, and in 1940 rejoined Disney. He invented many processes, including the animation multiplane camera. **Pat Powers** – An animation producer who got sound recording going for animation. Disney used his service for his much-vaunted _Steamboat Willie_ (which wasn’t the first sound cartoon, but was arguably the first successful one). You’d think, with sound setting Disney apart from other cartoon studios, that he’d want to keep Powers on his side. But they had a falling out shortly after over distribution profits. **Pinto Colvig** – The original Voice of Goofy. Also Pluto. And two of the Seven Dwarfs. And Practical Pig of the Three Little Pigs. But he, too, had a “falling out” with Disney in 1937, and left the studio. He went to work for Fleischer, where he was voice of Gabby in _Gulliver’s Travels_ and in subsequent shorts, and did other voices for the company. He returned to Disney in 1940, and resumed Goofy. Later on he was the original voice of Bozo the Clown on Capitol Records. There’s a story that it was because of his departure that Goofy had non-speaking roles in theatrical shorts like “The Art of Skiing”, but most of these were released after Colvig’s return. (Although the gestation period of cartoons is long, so it could be they were started before his return) **Cornelius Vanderbilt Wood** – The Man Who Built Disneyland. Disney and he clashed even before Disneyland was finished, but it has to be admitted that he gave his all in building the park – his marriage was one casualty. Nevertheless, his name has been expunged from the Disney histories as completely as those of Stalin’s opponents were from Soviet history. Wood went on to build other amusement parks around the country. Most of these failed within a decade (Freedomland in New York; Pleasure Island near Boston), but Six Flags continues. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/2 "2021-04-26T13:12:52Z")
(Not going to derail a Disney thread, but 1920s-era Henry Ford had the exact same problem, much to GM’s delight.) ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/3 "2021-04-26T13:20:42Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > But I’m surprised at the number of key people who left Disney rather than try to continue working with him. Or the number of key people he simply couldn’t compromise with. A trite observation, but Disney seems to have fallen out with people with uniformly cool names. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/4 "2021-04-26T13:46:16Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > after the Oswald the Rabbit debacle I’m not familiar with this. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/5 "2021-04-26T13:57:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’m not familiar with this. > [@](#): > > **Oswald the Lucky Rabbit** (also known as Oswald the Rabbit or Oswald Rabbit) is a cartoon character created in 1927 by Walt Disney for [Universal Pictures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Pictures). He starred in several animated short films released to theaters from 1927 to 1938. 27 animated Oswald shorts were produced at the [Walt Disney Studio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_Animation_Studios). When the Disney studio was removed from the Oswald series and several of its animators departed to Winkler, Walt Disney and Iwerks created [Mickey Mouse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse).[[5]] > > … > > Disney chose to make the character a rabbit since there were already two popular animated cats at the time, [Felix the Cat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_the_Cat) and [Krazy Kat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krazy_Kat). > > The first Oswald cartoon, _Poor Papa_ , was rejected by the Universal studio heads for its poor production quality and the sloppiness and age of Oswald.[[13]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-bcdb-13) Disney, together with Iwerks, decided to create a second cartoon titled _[Trolley Troubles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_Troubles)_ featuring a much younger, neater Oswald. The short, released on September 5, 1927,[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-SusaninMiller2011-12) officially launched the series and proved to be Universal’s greatest success to date. The storyline for _Poor Papa_ was reused in a Mickey Mouse short five years later, in _Mickey’s Nightmare_ , 1932.[[13]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-bcdb-13) Oswald the Lucky Rabbit became Universal’s first major hit in 1927, rivaling other popular cartoon characters, such as Felix the Cat and [Koko the Clown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_the_Clown).[[8]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-PW-8)[[14]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-14) > > The success of the Oswald series allowed the Walt Disney Studio to grow to a staff of nearly twenty. Walt’s weekly salary from the series was $100 while [Roy Disney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_O._Disney)’s was $65. The Disney brothers earned $500 per Oswald short and split the year-end profits, with Walt receiving 60% ($5,361), and Roy receiving 40% ($3,574).[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-SusaninMiller2011-12) With income gained from the Oswald series, Walt and Roy purchased ten acres of land in the desert. They also invested in an oil-drilling venture. Iwerks also invested his income in several stone mills to crush paint pigment he used to make paint formulas that were utilized by animators for decades.[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-SusaninMiller2011-12) > > Oswald’s success also resulted in Universal and Winkler signing another contract in February 1928, guaranteeing three more years of Oswald cartoons.[[15]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-15) > > As time passed, Disney feared that Mintz would forgo renewal of the contract, partly due to Iwerks informing Disney that George Winkler, at the behest of Mintz, had been going behind Disney’s back during pick-up runs for Oswald reels and hiring away his animators. Eventually, Walt traveled with his wife [Lilly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillian_Disney) to New York to find other potential distributors for his studio’s cartoons, including Fox and MGM, prior to meetings with Mintz. As Walt later recalled, he placed two Oswald prints under one arm and—feeling “like a hick”—marched “one half-block north” on Broadway to MGM to visit [Fred Quimby](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Quimby). During this period, Walt and Lillian attended the premier of the Oswald short _Rival Romeos_ , which debuted at the Colony on 53rd and Broadway.[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-SusaninMiller2011-12) > > In the spring of 1928, Disney traveled to New York City in hopes of negotiating a more profitable contract with his producer Charles Mintz. But as economic problems were apparent at the time, Mintz figured Disney should settle for a 20% cut, although large turnarounds were promised if the studio’s finances showed considerable growth. While most of his fellow animators left for Mintz’s studio, Disney decided to quit working on the Oswald cartoons. On his long train ride home, he came up with an idea to create another character, and retain the rights to it. He and Iwerks would go on to develop a new cartoon in secret, starring a new character which would soon become the most successful cartoon character in film history and later became the foundation of a global entertainment empire. The first [Mickey Mouse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Mouse) cartoon to be filmed was _[Plane Crazy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_Crazy)_ in the summer of 1928, but it was produced as a silent and held back from release. The first Mickey Mouse film with a synchronized soundtrack, _[Steamboat Willie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboat_Willie)_ , reached the screen that fall and became a major hit, eclipsing Oswald. _Plane Crazy_ was later given its own synchronized soundtrack and released on March 17, 1929.[[16]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-16)[[17]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit#cite_note-17) > **[Oswald the Lucky Rabbit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_the_Lucky_Rabbit)** > > Oswald the Lucky Rabbit (also known as Oswald the Rabbit, Oswald Rabbit, or simply Oswald) is an animated cartoon character created in 1927 by Walt Disney and Ub Iwerks for Universal Pictures. He starred in several animated short films released to theaters from 1927 to 1938. Twenty-seven animated Oswald shorts were produced at the Walt Disney Studio. After Universal took control of Oswald's character in 1928, Disney created a new character similar in appearance to Oswald as a replacement: Mic... Charles Mintz was also the name of the villain in Disney/Pixar’s movie **Up!**. This is not a coincidence. Mintz was another person who “had a falling out with Disney”, but in this case I fully understand it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MovieDetails/comments/7t83ql/charles\_muntz\_the\_villain\_in\_pixars\_up\_is\_named/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MovieDetails/comments/7t83ql/charles_muntz_the_villain_in_pixars_up_is_named/) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/6 "2021-04-26T14:41:14Z")
I worked with a couple of old Disney animators. According to them he just liked to have his own way and had no patience for disagreement. You could tell him your opinion, then he’d tell you that you were wrong, and everything would be fine if you never brought it up again. Both those guys stuck it out until after his death and the end of the traditional animation division at Disney, and they pointed out that Walt was actually right about the biggest issues, right up until the end Walt knew what the public wanted and his major expenditures on full length movies and Disneyland didn’t bankrupt the company as so many predicted. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/7 "2021-04-26T14:49:33Z")
Walt Kelly left Disney for comic book work after he was fired in the big [animators’ strike of 1941](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_animators%27_strike).So did dozens of others, many of whom went on to become major names and create lasting works of their own. There is no Hollywood studio head for which this wasn’t true. We’ve just forgotten all the other names but Disney lives on as a brand, a brand he worked so hard to create that he couldn’t tolerate anyone else removing a grain of the credit or adulation. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/8 "2021-04-26T14:55:02Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There is no Hollywood studio head for which this wasn’t true. We’ve just forgotten all the other names but Disney lives on as a brand Wait, we forgot Jack Warner & Louis B. Mayer? I’ll give you a lot of the other old studio heads are barely remembered or forgotten, but I think those two live on as legends. Technically Howard Hughes also, but he is better known for other parts of his life. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/9 "2021-04-26T15:10:10Z")
Maybe everybody in this thread is a connoisseur of old movies, but I’d bet that out of 100 random people 99 would know Disney’s name and 1 would know any other mogul’s. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/10 "2021-04-26T15:11:53Z")
You know what … That’s fair. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/11 "2021-04-26T15:27:13Z")
“You ever heard of the Warner Brothers?” “They’re in movies, right?” “Yeah!” (That will get me to 2 of every hundred) /win 😉 ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/12 "2021-04-26T15:46:46Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “You ever heard of the Warner Brothers?” > > “They’re in movies, right?” “And, their first names?” ---
**Author:** ![Kzbre5m](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f08c70/32.png) [@Kzbre5m](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kzbre5m)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/13 "2021-04-26T15:53:47Z")
> [@digs](#): > > “And, their first names?” Yakko, Wakko and their sister Dot. 🙂 (I remember Jack Warner, but I had to look up Albert, Harry and Sam.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/14 "2021-04-26T17:14:19Z")
Jack is the only one I remember too. But he rewrote studio history as I recall to help that along. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/15 "2021-04-26T20:20:27Z")
when did universal pick up walter lantz and woody woodpecker and the crew …? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/16 "2021-04-26T20:21:37Z")
also somehow disney got the rights back to oswald as he was in the 2 “epic mickey” video games ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/17 "2021-04-26T20:33:13Z")
They traded sportscaster Al Michaels to NBC for the rights. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/18 "2021-04-26T20:55:47Z")
This sounds like a joke, but it isn’t. For anyone who doesn’t know the story: Al Michaels was working for ABC Sports, which is owned by Disney. He was interested in moving to NBC Sports, which (along with Universal) is owned by Comcast. In exchange for the rights to Oswald, among other things, Disney agreed to release Michaels from his contract, so that NBC/Universal would be free to hire him. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/19 "2021-04-26T21:31:18Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > when did universal pick up walter lantz and woody woodpecker and the crew …? The timeline is something like this. Disney created Oswald the Lucky Rabbit for Universal in 1927. Universal’s Charles Mintz hired all of Disney’s animators in Feb. 1928. Lantz, who never worked for Disney, was hired by Mintz later that year. He won the rights to Oswald in a game of poker. He started his own company separate from Universal in 1935 still making Oswald pictures. Woody Woodpecker came along in 1940. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786/20 "2021-04-26T21:32:43Z")
> [@digs](#): > > > [@JohnT](#): > > > > “You ever heard of the Warner Brothers?” > > > > “They’re in movies, right?” > > “And, their first names?” I think one just goes by Pop. mmm [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-a-falling-out-with-walt-disney/940786.md?page=2)