# Had JFK lived, would he have been re-elected in 1964?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 22, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524 "2013-11-22T15:21:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/41 "2013-11-24T15:20:42Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#):
>
> More importantly: would the Beatles have had as great an impact in America had he lived?
Did they have any great impact in this timeline? They were musicians. That is all. Outside the world of music, they changed nothing. Artists never do, really.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/42 "2013-11-24T15:23:42Z")
> [@Musicat](#):
>
> Not as bad or as visible as FDR’s.
In FDR’s day the public did not know of his disability, because the press had a gentleman’s agreement never to mention it or to print a photo of him in a wheelchair.
Something of the kind might be why the public never knew much of JFK’s womanizing while he lived.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/43 "2013-11-24T15:27:51Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> It is quite probable Nixon would never be President and that Nixon wouldn’t resign even if he was elected due to the Butterfly effect.
Nixon was destroyed by his own persecution-mania and by his utter obsession with winning a second term. Those factors follow Nixon no matter when or how he takes office. The only factor that might change if Nixon takes office earlier or later is the perception within his Admin that his failure to win a second term might literally destroy the country; that was unique to the social-upheaval period of 1968-72.
---
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/44 "2013-11-24T15:34:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> In FDR’s day the public did not know of his disability, because the press had a gentleman’s agreement never to mention it or to print a photo of him in a wheelchair.
>
> Something of the kind might be why the public never knew much of JFK’s womanizing while he lived.
Or of LBJ’s. I’ve read he actually told the press corps that from time to time they might see him closing the door when with some lady and they needn’t worry themselves about that. And apparently it was still common for reporters to ignore such peccadilloes.
It’s only in recent years that I’ve heard people entertain the possibility of Kennedy losing in 1964. As far as I can tell, a second term was generally accepted as a done deal at the time.
---
### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/45 "2013-11-24T17:49:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> Did they have any great impact in this timeline? They were musicians. That is all. Outside the world of music, they changed nothing. Artists never do, really.
I disagree with this, but this isn’t the thread… 🙂
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/46 "2013-11-24T19:15:15Z")
> [@JohnT](#):
>
> I disagree with this, but this isn’t the thread… 🙂
Fine. [This](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=708653) is the thread.
---
### Author:  [@john\_b\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john_b_2)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/47 "2013-11-25T05:33:46Z")
If Kennedy had lived to run for a second term I think he’d have been reeleted, as Goldwater was the likely Republican nominee, especially since JFK was reasonably popular and the moderate Republicans would have been only too willing to allow the right wing of the party to in effect commit suicide in the November election.
For me the bigger quesion is how Kennedy would have handled civil rights, as Congress, while Democratic, much of what gave the Dems an edge was their virtual one party domination in the segregationist South. LBJ was a master of the Senate, a born wheeler and dealer, real world to the core. JFK wasn’t like that. He’d have had to work closely with Johnson to get civil right legislation passed, and it probably wouldn’t have been so sweeping as it was under LBJ.
The country was racially divided fifty years ago, and there was resistance to civil rights for blacks outside the South. It was going to be a m/f-er with or without JFK in the White House. I’m not so sure Kennedy could have retained his popularity outside of his liberal base once the civil rights legislation was enacted. As it was, things were tough all over where race was concerned. My sense is that the bloom would have been off the rose in JFK’s second term. Things were going to get rough…and then there was the business of what to do in Vietnam and Southeast Asia.
---
### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/48 "2013-11-25T17:16:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> ISTM that LBJ used the political capital generated by the assassination to push thru the Civil Rights bills. Without that? Maybe it would have been watered down.
>
> But you are correct that it took a Democrat - they controlled both houses, and a higher proportion of Republicans voted for the Act than did Democrats, IIRC. So they needed a legislative genius like LBJ to push the laws thru against the wishes of the Dixicrats of the Solid South.
>
> Regards,
> Shodan
That’s quite a bit misleading. The votes were much more in line with geography than party, and at the time the Democrats dominated the old Confederacy.
The votes were as follows:
House
Southern (old CSA states) Democrats 7 for 87 against (7% for)
Southern Republicans 0 for 10 against (0% for)
Northern Democrats 145 for 9 against 145 for 9 against (94% for)
Northern Republicans 138 for 24 against (85% for)
Total House Democrats: 152 for 96 against (61% for)
Total House Republicans: 138 for 34 against (80% for)
So even though southern Democrats were more likely in favor than southern Republicans, and northern Democrats were more likely in favor than northern Republicans, by virtue of having a 94-10 advantage in number of Reps from the old CSA, the Democrats as a whole had a lower percentage in favor.
Senate
Southern Democrats 1 for 20 against (5% for)
Southern Republicans 0 for 1 against (0% for)
Northern Democrats 45 for 1 against (98% for)
Northern Republicans 27 for 5 against (84% for)
Total Senate Democrats 46 for 21 against (69% for)
Total Senate Republicans 27 for 6 against (82% for)
Just as in the House, southern Democrats were more likely in favor than southern Republicans, northern Democrats more likely in favor than northern Republicans. The fact that the CSA was represented in the Senate by 21-1 in favor of Democrats gives rise to that misleading statistic.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/49 "2013-11-25T19:22:26Z")
> [@john\_b\_2](#):
>
> If Kennedy had lived to run for a second term I think he’d have been reeleted, as Goldwater was the likely Republican nominee . . .
Actually, he was a very unlikely nominee; it could not have happened without a major intrapartisan RW insurgency similar to the Tea Party.
---
### Author:  [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524/50 "2013-11-26T20:53:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> That’s quite a bit misleading. The votes were much more in line with geography than party, and at the time the Democrats dominated the old Confederacy.
>
> The votes were as follows:
>
> House
> Southern (old CSA states) Democrats 7 for 87 against (7% for)
> Southern Republicans 0 for 10 against (0% for)
> Northern Democrats 145 for 9 against 145 for 9 against (94% for)
> Northern Republicans 138 for 24 against (85% for)
> Total House Democrats: 152 for 96 against (61% for)
> Total House Republicans: 138 for 34 against (80% for)
>
> So even though southern Democrats were more likely in favor than southern Republicans, and northern Democrats were more likely in favor than northern Republicans, by virtue of having a 94-10 advantage in number of Reps from the old CSA, the Democrats as a whole had a lower percentage in favor.
>
> Senate
> Southern Democrats 1 for 20 against (5% for)
> Southern Republicans 0 for 1 against (0% for)
> Northern Democrats 45 for 1 against (98% for)
> Northern Republicans 27 for 5 against (84% for)
> Total Senate Democrats 46 for 21 against (69% for)
> Total Senate Republicans 27 for 6 against (82% for)
>
> Just as in the House, southern Democrats were more likely in favor than southern Republicans, northern Democrats more likely in favor than northern Republicans. The fact that the CSA was represented in the Senate by 21-1 in favor of Democrats gives rise to that misleading statistic.
Stop bothering us with the facts!
Next you’ll bring up that Barry Goldwater condemned Brown vs. Board of Education of Topeka Kansas and insisted that segregated school systems were perfectly constitutional.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-jfk-lived-would-he-have-been-re-elected-in-1964/674524.md?page=2)