# had the American government something to do with 9-11? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084 "2006-07-03T19:38:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/21 "2006-07-03T23:01:11Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Minotaurus…if that IS your real name… [/QUOTE] Of course it is. Doesn’t your driver’s license say **Lemur866?** ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/22 "2006-07-03T23:12:11Z")
Well, my real name is XT. 😛 Seriously, the OP needs to read through the myriad OTHER threads on this (and he doesn’t have the excuse of being a guest and not being able to seach)…I think this is one subject that has been so throughly gone over on this board that it should NEVER have to be brought up again (fat chance, ehe?). -XT ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/23 "2006-07-04T01:51:35Z")
The answer is “probably not” other than possibly missing opportunities to prevent it. It is not important for conspiracy nuts (and they are nuts) to be correct and accurate. What is important is that they paint a picture of a US government that has gone insane. ---
**Author:** ![Minotaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Minotaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minotaurus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/24 "2006-07-04T01:52:47Z")
what about “The Project for the New American Century” and their role in this event and those after? > [@](#): > > The Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, is a Washington-based think tank created in 1997. Above all else, PNAC desires and demands one > thing: The establishment of a global American empire to bend the will of > all nations. They chafe at the idea that the United States, the last > remaining superpower, does not do more by way of economic and military > force to bring the rest of the world under the umbrella of a new > socio-economic Pax Americana. According to PNAC, America must: - Reposition permanently based forces to Southern Europe, Southeast Asia and the Middle East; [http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/25 "2006-07-04T02:09:12Z")
[QUOTE=Minotaurus] what about “The Project for the New American Century” and their role in this event and those after? [/QUOTE] What role did this think tank have in the events of 9/11? Show your work. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/26 "2006-07-04T02:11:19Z")
[QUOTE=Minotaurus] what about “The Project for the New American Century” and their role in this event and those after? [/QUOTE] PNAC has played an important role in America’s **response** to the attack, not in the attack itself. (Though I’m sure more than a few PNAC members jizzed their drawers when they saw the first news reports from NYC.) ---
**Author:** ![Dolukhanova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c68b51/32.png) [@Dolukhanova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dolukhanova)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/27 "2006-07-04T03:46:39Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] (Though I’m sure more than a few PNAC members jizzed their drawers when they saw the first news reports from NYC.) [/QUOTE] Am i allowed to remark on what a filthy and disgusting thing that is to say? Anyway, as to the OP – leaving aside the ample discussion and demolishing of this claim elsewhere, as cited by others, I would just note that all of the quoted statements sound like nothing more than attempts to describe what they saw and heard by likening it to other things they had seen or heard of. They in no way represent a considered or expert opinion that that was happening here. After all, I am sure I was not alone in describing the sight of the dust cloud roaring up the street as people fled as being “just like a scene in a horror movie,” but I don’t think anyone actually believed that it was a scene in a horror movie. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/28 "2006-07-04T03:49:24Z")
[QUOTE=Dolukhanova] Am i allowed to remark on what a filthy and disgusting thing that is to say? [/quote] Of course you are, but that would not be the same thing as refuting it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/29 "2006-07-04T03:50:35Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] PNAC has played an important role in America’s response to the attack, not in the attack itself. (Though I’m sure more than a few PNAC members jizzed their drawers when they saw the first news reports from NYC.) [/QUOTE] Would you say that more, less or as many as liberals who jizz their’s over the failure in Iraq or the fuck up over Katrina? :dubious: What an absolutely stupid fucking thing to say BG. ☹ -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/30 "2006-07-04T03:52:00Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Would you say that more, less or as many as liberals who jizz their’s over the failure in Iraq or the fuck up over Katrina? :dubious: [/QUOTE] Less – but only because neocons are far less numerous than liberals of any stripe. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/31 "2006-07-04T03:53:51Z")
:rolleyes: You think there are more neo-cons than there are liberals?? Wow…thats a facinating statement. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/32 "2006-07-04T03:55:06Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] :rolleyes: You think there are more neo-cons than there are liberals?? Wow…thats a facinating statement. [/QUOTE] It is, especially considering he said the opposite. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/33 "2006-07-04T03:55:50Z")
Many times… I think I’d have just taken my lumps and admitted I said something stupid. -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/34 "2006-07-04T03:56:53Z")
Oops. I guess I need to learn to read. My bad… (taking my own lumps now) -XT ---
**Author:** ![bloo-bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c77e96/32.png) [@bloo-bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bloo-bird)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/35 "2006-07-04T05:33:43Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] If we just say yes they did, can we close this thread? Yes, duh, the US goverenment downed the two towers, crashed a plane into thte Pentagon (or was it a plane?) and shot down a plane over Pennsylvania. Can we move on now? Please? [/QUOTE] Yes, and if the government actually admitted this, the citizens would just go on along their daily business, not doing a thing about it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/36 "2006-07-04T05:53:19Z")
[QUOTE=bloo-bird] Yes, and if the government actually admitted this, the citizens would just go on along their daily business, not doing a thing about it. [/QUOTE] Given the situation on that day, had the US actually succeeded in shooting down one (or more) of the hijacked planes, the appropriate response would be a sad resignation that such an event was necessary. There is nothing the citizens should have done about it beside mourn the loss of the passengers and plane and offer condolences to the pilot who succeeded in making the shot. ---
**Author:** ![PBear42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PBear42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PBear42)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/37 "2006-07-04T05:54:12Z")
For the benefit of lurkers seeing this issue for the first time, here’s a recent, fairly comprehensive thread on the topic, [9/11 Conspiracy Theories!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=364515). Other threads include [Loose Change video: 9/11 conspiracy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=357264), [Is someone else responsible for 9/11?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=362124), [Debunk this 9/11 conspiracy theory](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289916), [Missile hitting the Pentagon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=279774), [WTC Conspiracy Theory](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=263578) and [Bush 9/11 movie, must read/see](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=247263). As for substance, the theory has been around for over four years and (IMHO) has been thoroughly debunked. Among the sites worth looking at: [David Corn](http://www.alternet.org/story/12536/); [Snopes](http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm); [911 Myths](http://911myths.com/); [rotten.com](http://www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/september_11_conspiracy_theories/); [Boutin & Di Justo](http://paulboutin.weblogger.com/2002/03/14); [William Jasper](http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_1253.shtml); and [Shalom & Albert](http://www.zmag.org/content/Instructionals/shalalbcon.cfm). On the WTC collapse, 911 Myths is particularly good. * * * And, to put a little meat on the bones, something I posted on one of the above-linked threads: Top 15 Reasons Why the 9/11 Conspiracy is Absurd 1. No one would have dared to float such a plan even for discussion purposes. You get fired for stuff like that. Look what happened to the Northwoods guys, and those were going to be feigned attacks. 2. Think what you will of Bush/Cheney, and I don’t like them one little bit, to suggest they ordered the murder of thousands of civilians for something as trivial as an oil pipeline is ludicrous and outrageous. And becomes no less so by infinite repetition. Whereas the terrorists’ motives are perfectly clear. 3. There’s no way the military and/or CIA could have pulled off an operation of this complexity. Name any similarly-sized undertaking in the last thirty years that worked. Doesn’t have to be a secret one. 4. There’s no way an undercover operation of this scope hasn’t been blown. 5. If such a plan had been developed, it would have been directed at Saddam, not bin Laden. 6. The alleged plan is stupid. What if the Taliban had turned bin Laden over? Or arranged for asylum in some other country? The whole thing would have been for nothing. 7. If there were a plot, the President wouldn’t have been caught flat-footed in a Florida classroom. 8. Barbara Olson, wife of Bush’s Solicitor General, was on United Flight #77. 9. How did we manage to lure so many al Qaeda operatives onto just four flights, all on the same morning? 10. Why bother with WTC 7? (In which, remember, the CIA, etc. had offices.) 11, Why four planes and why hit anything? Recruit one cell of Iraqis; have them hijack one jet; fly around for a while, implicating Saddam with demands; next, threaten to fly into the WTC. Prez reluctantly authorizes taking it down. Then angrily demands a declaration of war, which he receives in hours. 11. Why waste a plane on the Pentagon? To al Qaeda, it’s an important symbol of their principal point of contact with the U.S. (the military). Not nearly so compelling, from a domestic propaganda standpoint, as dozens of other targets which could be named. 12. Taking down the towers with both planes and explosives would have been stupid. Greatly increased risk of failure and/or breach of security for very little additional propaganda value. 13. Where did all the thousands of pieces of evidence implicating al Qaeda come from? How was it successfully planted in so many locations? Over what period of time? How many people are in on this? 14. Al Qaeda admits it orchestrated the attacks, permitted itself to be turned into an outlaw organization and precipitated the invasion of two Arab nations. All to facilitate the Neocon agenda? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/38 "2006-07-04T06:42:37Z")
[QUOTE=PBear42] 1. There’s no way the military and/or CIA could have pulled off an operation of this complexity. Name any similarly-sized undertaking in the last thirty years that worked. Doesn’t have to be a secret one. [/QUOTE] Well, the Girl Scouts succesfully assisinated John F. Kennedy because he proposed additional taxes on cookie sales donchaknow. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/39 "2006-07-04T15:00:17Z")
[QUOTE=PBear42] And, to put a little meat on the bones, something I posted on one of the above-linked threads: Top 15 Reasons Why the 9/11 Conspiracy is Absurd 1. If there were a plot, the President wouldn’t have been caught flat-footed in a Florida classroom. 2. Barbara Olson, wife of Bush’s Solicitor General, was on United Flight #77. [/QUOTE] I’d probably leave those out in future. Having Bush _appear_ to be caught flat-footed is a stroke of genius, and the government plotters who… Hmmmm? I take it back. I used “government plotters” and “genius” in the same sentence. My bad. As to poor Ms. Olson, another stroke of genius. Remember Henry Fonda on the phone to the Kremlin in _Fail Safe_? > [@](#): > > I’ve ordered a Vindicator bomber > into the air from Washington. > > In a few minutes, it will be > flying over New York City. > > It is carrying two > -megaton bombs. > > The moment I know > that Moscow has been hit… > > I will order that plane > to drop its bombs. > > It will use the Empire State Building > for ground zero. > > When we hear the shriek > of Mr. Lentov’s phone melting… Fonda’s wife and kids were in New York. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084/40 "2006-07-04T15:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Fonda’s wife and kids were in New York. [/QUOTE] They somehow survived to make _Easy Rider_ and _Barbarella_, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/had-the-american-government-something-to-do-with-9-11/363084.md?page=3)