# Haha very funny motherfuckers (hiking trail boobytrapped) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784 "2012-04-24T06:15:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/61 "2012-04-25T07:04:40Z")
What about charging them with a terrorism related charge. There have been arrests made of various “cells” that never got beyond the talking phase. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/62 "2012-04-25T08:28:08Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > **So you disagree that attempted murder is serious** > > No dimwit. Attempted murder is very serious. Did you really ask that question? Thanks for the personal insults. I asked because the major tenor in this thread is “ha ha practical joke”, not “attempted murder”. It’s the reaction of the dopers in this thread in addition to it being called a misdemeanor that utterly surprises me. > [@](#): > > **or do you disagree that they should be charged with it?** > > This answer has two parts. The first part is that, in an ideal world, where i write the laws and get to define what constitutes attempted murder, these two people would be charged with attempted murder.The second part is that, even while i feel that this should be the case, it could in fact be that the Utah penal code does not actually allow for an attempted murder charge in this case. If that is true, then the DA is left in a position where he or she cannot, in fact make the charge, no matter how much i might wish it were otherwise. Do we know that the DA looked at attempted murder? Given that half the people in this thread find this amusing, and given that the rednecks are white and targeted hikers (who might be considered weirdo hippies in Utah, I don’t know) maybe the DA said “misdemeanor” without bothering further. > [@](#): > > **I don’t quite understand why it’s just “ha ha misdemeanor, they are stupid” instead of “serious attempt to kill other people, lets put them in prison”.** > > Read this very slowly, so you grasp the issue: for me, their actions did constitute a serious attempt to kill other people. For the law, however, this _may not_ be the case. I’m not claiming to know what the law does and does not allow in this case; i’m merely arguing that what it allows may not be congruent with your and my sense of what is right and just and moral in this case. That’s why I asked your opinion, because the attitude of several others in this thread is different. I admit that I made an assumption (silly of me, I know) that the basic idea of what constitutes murder (an attempt, a felony) would be roughly similar in all states, according to basic common sense and basic structure of law, so that a person traveling from one state to the other doesn’t have to consult the whole book of law to know which actions are punishable and which not, but could instead rely on basic common sense for the major parts and only need to look minor things that change like building permits, speed limits or noise restrictions. But if in your system each state can define murder any which way it likes, then I will try to remember that next time. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/63 "2012-04-25T08:35:25Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > OK, here’s a simple question for you, then: If the Utah Penal Code defined attempted murder in such a way as to allow a charge of attempted murder for this particular incident, do you think that the prosecutors would have said this: > > > [@](#): > > > > Prosecutors believed the misdemeanor reckless endangerment allegations were the strongest claims they could pursue without anyone being injured. > > That quote is one of the main reasons that i’ve taken the position that i have on this issue. > > If the prosecutors had simply said, “We’re working out the charges, and will decide what charges to file over the next couple of days,” that would be different. But the AP story actually says that the prosecutors themselves believe that the actions of these two people will only sustain the misdemeanor charges. > > If the prosecutors do find, over the next few days, that they are indeed able to prefer a felony charge against the two men, i will be very happy. As i’ve made quite clear, i believe that what they did warrants serious punishment. Given the state of your justice system, with its history of huge injustices (e.g. the huge disparity in charging and sentencing between whites and blacks, or that women serve double the time for violent crimes than men, the many pre-trial deals, the wildly different charges for the same crime depending on who the accused is), I see no reason for your belief that the prosecutors looked at the whole penal code and for some reason couldn’t apply attempted murder or attempted serious bodily harm and only found misdemeanor. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/64 "2012-04-25T08:39:04Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > When the assholes in question claim that they were seeking to trap animals and not humans, what sort of weight is that claim given? I don’t know the answers to these questions, but they seem like the sort of things that would need to be answered. In a reasonable system, that would be laughed at and dismissed, given that they set the traps on hiking trails. You don’t trap animals on hiking trails (even if the animals are smart enough to use them during the night). Over here, it would of course also be a violation of hunting laws to hunt animals with these kind of traps, but I gather that hunting laws are very lax in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/65 "2012-04-25T09:47:10Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Thanks for the personal insults. I asked because the major tenor in this thread is “ha ha practical joke”, not “attempted murder”. It’s the reaction of the dopers in this thread in addition to it being called a misdemeanor that utterly surprises me. You seem to be utterly misunderstanding quite a few posts, then. No one is laughing about this, or thinks it’s funny. Which posts gave you that impression? > [@constanze](#): > > Do we know that the DA looked at attempted murder? Given that half the people in this thread find this amusing, and given that the rednecks are white and targeted hikers (who might be considered weirdo hippies in Utah, I don’t know) maybe the DA said “misdemeanor” without bothering further. You must have not read all the posts detailing that there is no such charge in the state of Utah. Or not read the sentence in the linked article in my OP where it said that authorities were convinced they might not be able to charge them with anything stronger, which implies that they want to and have considered it, but that they would not be able to secure convictions. > [@constanze](#): > > I admit that I made an assumption (silly of me, I know) that the basic idea of what constitutes murder (an attempt, a felony) would be roughly similar in all states, according to basic common sense and basic structure of law, so that a person traveling from one state to the other doesn’t have to consult the whole book of law to know which actions are punishable and which not, but could instead rely on basic common sense for the major parts and only need to look minor things that change like building permits, speed limits or noise restrictions. > > But if in your system each state can define murder any which way it likes, then I will try to remember that next time. Apparently you haven’t read any of the thousands upon thousands of posts about the Trayvon Martin killing on the Dope, because it’s been discussed at length that the state of Florida has not criminalized homocide, except when it’s unlawful. It’s a key point of those discussions that the definition of “murder” varies from state to state, sometimes in ways which seem counter-intuitive to many. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/66 "2012-04-25T10:01:51Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > What about charging them with a terrorism related charge. Good point. These were basically low-tech versions of an IED - a trap to harm or kill anyone coming by. Was this a national park, a state park, a local park or what? The ranger was USFS so I was wondering if it was federal land and thus potentially subject to federal jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/67 "2012-04-25T12:50:10Z")
**constanze** , if you don’t want people insulting you, first off, stay out of the fucking pit. Second, stop doing that shitty thing that people keep telling you not to do: insulting America and talking about how great Germany is. And third, stop assuming you know things you don’t know, like how the American justice system works. And, serious question: do you have trouble understanding English? Because **mhendo** is right: your interpretation of what he said was very, very wrong. I’m usually pretty good at figuring this stuff out, and even I can’t figure out how you got that out of what he said. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/68 "2012-04-25T17:34:12Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I asked because the major tenor in this thread is “ha ha practical joke”, not “attempted murder”. What? No-one has been saying that this was only a practical joke. A few people have been _making_ jokes, but that’s just the usual gallows humor that you get in almost any thread about a serious topic around here. I bet if you polled everyone who has contributed to this thread so far, asking for a serious answer, not one of them would laugh this incident off as a practical joke. > [@constanze](#): > > Do we know that the DA looked at attempted murder? Given that half the people in this thread find this amusing, and given that the rednecks are white and targeted hikers (who might be considered weirdo hippies in Utah, I don’t know) maybe the DA said “misdemeanor” without bothering further. This is just silly. Firstly, in Utah, hikers are not just “weirdo hippies”; heaps of people in Utah hike, including large numbers of the white, Mormon conservatives who make up a large portion of the state population. The natural environment is also a big tourist earner for the state, and no-one, from the governor on down, wants potential visitors driven away by the threat of being decapitated by a spiked rock. Second, the article quoted in the OP said that the prosecutors were concerned that, considering no-one was injured, a misdemeanor might be all that they could charge. Also, some people have suggested that the DA might be in the process of working out how to charge the pair with more serious offenses. As [this story](http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53977981-78/booby-traps-cannon-placed.html.csp) says: > [@](#): > > Rutkowski and Christensen were booked last week into Utah County jail on suspicion of misdemeanor reckless endangerment. Cannon said formal charges have not been filed yet, but expects they will be filed within the next couple of days. So, they were arrested and booked into jail on the misdemeanor charges. That allows the DA to get them into custody. But there’s nothing to prevent the prosecutor from adding other charges down the road, if that is appropriate. > [@constanze](#): > > That’s why I asked your opinion, because the attitude of several others in this thread is different. I really don’t think anyone else here has a different attitude. > [@constanze](#): > > I admit that I made an assumption (silly of me, I know) that the basic idea of what constitutes murder (an attempt, a felony) would be roughly similar in all states, according to basic common sense and basic structure of law, so that a person traveling from one state to the other doesn’t have to consult the whole book of law to know which actions are punishable and which not, but could instead rely on basic common sense for the major parts and only need to look minor things that change like building permits, speed limits or noise restrictions. If you placed the murder statutes of the 50 states side by side, and looked at how they work in actual court cases, i’ll bet you’d find a whole lot of similarities. It’s true that states set their own penal or criminal codes, but for most crimes, especially the “big” ones like murder, they tend to rely on very similar legal principles to define the crime, to determine its elements, etc. A lawyer with criminal experience like **Bricker** or **Oakminster** could probably talk more knowledgeably about this than i can. > [@constanze](#): > > Given the state of your justice system, with its history of huge injustices (e.g. the huge disparity in charging and sentencing between whites and blacks, or that women serve double the time for violent crimes than men, the many pre-trial deals, the wildly different charges for the same crime depending on who the accused is), I see no reason for your belief that the prosecutors looked at the whole penal code and for some reason couldn’t apply attempted murder or attempted serious bodily harm and only found misdemeanor. Look, you’ll get no argument from me that there are plenty of problems within the United States criminal justice system. Hell, just last week i read a compelling [book](http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Crow-Michelle-Alexander/dp/1595586431/ref=tmm_pap_title_0) about the ways in which the war on drugs disproportionately impacts poor communities and people of color. But that’s no reason to run around looking for a conspiracy, or for incompetence, whenever a case doesn’t quite conform to your expectations. Remember, my first contribution to this whole conversation was when you said: > [@constanze](#): > > They are being charged with a misdemeanor? Isn’t that the same category as a parking offence? Shouldn’t they be charged with murder - setting a deadly trap with malice aforethought? Firstly, a parking offense is not the same as a misdemeanor. A parking offense is an infraction for which you can be cited. It is not (generally, at least), a crime for which you can be arrested. Secondly, you suggested that these two should be charged with murder. I suspect that, even in your country, with its undoubtedly superior system of justice and its concern for equitable treatment, a person cannot be charged with murder if that person did not actually cause a death. I could be wrong; it’s possible, i guess, that your criminal code allows for a charge of murder in a case where nobody actually dies. I’d be pretty surprised, though. Also, even backwoods, redneck states with lots of hiking trails and lots of refugees from Deliverance, tend not to have laws on their books such as “setting a deadly trap with malice aforethought.” Similarly, New York does not have a specific statute entitled “sticking someone’s feet in concrete and making them swim the East River.” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/69 "2012-04-25T18:47:41Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Video of the traps in action (!) > > [2 arrested for setting booby traps near hiking trail | KSL.com](http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=960&sid=20091241&title=2-arrested-for-setting-booby-traps-near-hiking-trail) OK, the swingy rock thing looks like it might hurt, could be deadly. But “head level” in this case appears to mean “head level if you’re crawling through this little opening on all fours.” And since it swings on the outside of the structure it’d be more likely to hit you in the ass as you went in, unless you were already inside and coming out. That’s a lot different from what I was expecting: a beach ball-sized rock with friggin’ spikes that would swing across a hiking trail at about 5-6 feet off the ground. And as for the trip wire I was expecting more of a man-trap pit. The spikes in that case were so visible and in the open as to be ridiculously obvious. Misdemeanor short-sighted stupidity resulting in potentially dangerous situations. Whack their pee-pees with a splintery stick and make them spend a couple months observing trauma admissions in a big city hospital so they can get a better idea of what serious injuries look and feel like. Reckless endangerment sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/70 "2012-04-25T20:29:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In their defense, the Roadrunner NEVER gets hurt when the Coyote does this stuff. Kids, don’t try this argument [del]at home[/del] in court! Though we can only hope their defense attorney ignores that advice. I hope and pray there’s a felony that these guys can be charged with. Preferably one that enables the state to lock them up for a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/71 "2012-04-25T20:39:47Z")
I don’t get what the crawl through portion is all about. And the ‘fence’ of piled wood. This some kind of obstical course or something? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/72 "2012-04-25T23:27:06Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Thanks for the personal insults. I asked because the major tenor in this thread is “ha ha practical joke”, not “attempted murder”. Is this perhaps a “native/non-native speaker” misunderstanding where you’re being misled by the idiom in the thread title? In American English, to say “Ha ha very funny” almost universally connotes sarcasm. It’s what you say when you DON’T think something’s funny at all. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/73 "2012-04-25T23:37:19Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > How big does a rick need to be to graduate to a boulder? About [this big](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&noredirect=1). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/74 "2012-04-26T00:12:22Z")
Who changed my thread title? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/75 "2012-04-26T00:22:38Z")
Quarrymen. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/76 "2012-04-26T06:11:23Z")
Only one other person has mentioned conspiracy, and it strikes me as likely that it’s the only felony charge that could stick. The problem with attempted murder is that there’s a crime against a person involved, and there’s no person involved in this case. Had the trap been triggered, and someone narrowly averted death, then attempted murder might be a possible charge. The glory of conspiracy is that all it requires is an agreement to commit the crime, and an overt act in pursuit of committing the crime – selecting a victim isn’t necessary: [QUOTE=Utah Code 76-4-201] For purposes of this part a person is guilty of conspiracy when he, intending that conduct constituting a crime be performed, agrees with one or more persons to engage in or cause the performance of the conduct and any one of them commits an overt act in pursuance of the conspiracy, except where the offense is a capital felony, a felony against the person, arson, burglary, or robbery, the overt act is not required for the commission of conspiracy. [/QUOTE] My mistake – the overt act isn’t necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/77 "2012-04-26T09:03:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Who changed my thread title? Probably the same guy who moved your cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/78 "2012-04-26T13:52:32Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Take a look at their mugshots. > > These smug little assholes need to do hard time. Hard time in the barbers, in one case. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/79 "2012-04-26T17:47:31Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Quarrymen. Provo and the Quarrymen. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784/80 "2012-04-26T19:14:09Z")
Update: The local TV station posted an [interview](http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=20114922&title=ap-interview-booby-traps-found-by-bomb-expert&s_cid=queue-13) with the Forest Service officer who found the booby traps. The article gave further insight into the geniuses who were arrested. > [@](#): > > They told authorities the traps were intended for wildlife, specifically wild boar and bunnies, but investigators don’t believe it. > > “I wouldn’t buy that excuse,” Schoeffler said. “They actually used the term `bunnies.’ That’s kind of funny – and there are no wild boars in Utah.” So now we know specifically what kind of wildlife the traps were intended for – wild boars and bunnies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haha-very-funny-motherfuckers-hiking-trail-boobytrapped/619784.md?page=5)