# Haitians "deal with the devil" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 14, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940 "2010-01-14T15:59:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/1 "2010-01-14T15:59:43Z")
I’m not sure which forum this should be in but I guess it has some sort of factual answer to it. The hubub yesterday about the Haitians having it coming to them because of the deal they made with the devil “according to Pat Robertson” got me to do a little digging. Robertson was referring to the violent Haitian slave rebellion against French colonialists back around 1800. Slaves won. So what is this “deal with the devil” that Robertson is referring to? Is it the mixing of African vodou with christianity then success at removing the French that Robertson thinks was “the deal”? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/2 "2010-01-14T16:07:06Z")
You might find [this](http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1573) informative. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/3 "2010-01-14T16:15:08Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I’m not sure which forum this should be in but I guess it has some sort of factual answer to it. > > The hubub yesterday about the Haitians having it coming to them because of the deal they made with the devil “according to Pat Robertson” got me to do a little digging. > Robertson was referring to the violent Haitian slave rebellion against French colonialists back around 1800. Slaves won. > > So what is this “deal with the devil” that Robertson is referring to? Is it the mixing of African vodou with christianity then success at removing the French that Robertson thinks was “the deal”? No, it’s Roberton’s mixing of Christianity with insanity. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/4 "2010-01-14T16:17:05Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#): > > You might find [this](http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1573) informative. That’s pretty interesting. Although if they performed this ceremony in 1791 and it gave satan control of Haiti for 200 years shouldn’t his lease have ended in 1991? ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/5 "2010-01-14T16:25:13Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > That’s pretty interesting. Although if they performed this ceremony in 1791 and it gave satan control of Haiti for 200 years shouldn’t his lease have ended in 1991? Absent of a formal notice to vacate he would be on a month-to-month plan. After recent events, I strongly recommend 30 days notice to evict. The article is very interesting, although the Wikipedia article is terribly written. It seems strangely credulous: [QUOTE=Wikipedia article on Haitian Vodou] This ceremony ultimately resulted in the liberation of the Haitian people from French colonial rule in 1804. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/6 "2010-01-14T16:26:21Z")
It’s generally not a good idea to inquire too carefully into what Robertson says, because there’s a lot of crazy there. But you can get more information [here,](http://signposts02.wordpress.com/2010/01/14/exploring-the-truth-about-haitis-supposed-pact-with-the-devil/) where it’s mentioned, and argued against, written an Evangelical Haitian American minister. Basically, there’s a legend that, in 1791, a guy named Boukman Dutty, who might have been a houngan and might not have been (there’s a debate whether he was Catholic or Voudon) had a meeting at Bois Caiman with a bunch of slave leaders where they planned the slave revolt that turned into the Haitian revolution. They sacrificed a pig, swore an oath that they wouldn’t stop fighting until they were dead or all the slaves were freed, and then Boukman said the following prayer: > [@](#): > > Good Lord who hath made the sun that shines upon us, that riseth from the sea, who maketh the storm to roar; and governeth the thunders, The Lord is hidden in the heavens, and there He watcheth over us. The Lord seeth what the blancs have done. Their god commandeth crimes, ours giveth blessings upon us. The Good Lord hath ordained vengeance. He will give strength to our arms and courage to our hearts. He shall sustain us. Cast down the image of the god of the blancs, because he maketh the tears to flow from our eyes. Hearken unto Liberty that speaketh now in all your hearts. So, of course, the legend of the Bois Caiman meeting sparked another legend, which is that, at the meeting, Boukman didn’t pray to God, he prayed to the devil and made a pact with him. Because, of course, said the people who started the legend, slavery is divinely ordained, so how could God help a slave revolt, and why would God help black people over white people anyway? Besides, Haiti’s a mess, so obviously it can’t have been divinely favored. It must have been due to a deal with the devil. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/7 "2010-01-14T16:35:33Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > That’s pretty interesting. Although if they performed this ceremony in 1791 and it gave satan control of Haiti for 200 years shouldn’t his lease have ended in 1991? You are assuming that the devil keeps his promises. I once tried to write a short story where a guy renounces all connection with God and His protection, and the devil promises to give him long life and riches in return. The guy says the words of renunciation, and then the devil immediately grabs him and begins to drag him off to hell. “What are you doing! You promised me riches!” yells the guy. The devil responds, “I lied. Who are you gonna complain to?” I thought the story about Haiti was something Pat Robertson made up. Turns out there is at least a Wiki cite for it. Go figure. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/8 "2010-01-14T16:36:39Z")
It’s a real pity Robertson couldn’t find some way to blame this on homosexuals. I only need one more square in the “Homosexual Destruction of Civilization” column to complete my Evangelical Nutbag Bingo card. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/9 "2010-01-14T16:41:18Z")
It’s important to recognize that Robertson’s ideas have no scriptural basis at all. The biblical devil works through the hearts of men, not through the Earth’s crust. There is no biblical story of the devil razing a city. There are plenty of stories of God doing it, but none of the Devil doing it. The devil is a tempter who has no real power of his own, but can subvert the will of others into doing his bidding. So unless there was a Haitian with powers like Samuel from Heroes who made a pact with the devil, then there’s no basis for this. But yeah, most likely, he’s referring to Voodoo. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/10 "2010-01-14T16:58:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s a real pity Robertson couldn’t find some way to blame this on homosexuals. I only need one more square in the “Homosexual Destruction of Civilization” column to complete my Evangelical Nutbag Bingo card. Doesn’t AIDS count? I thought it spread from Africa to Haiti to the US and so on. [Cite.](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/10/071029-aids-haiti.html) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/11 "2010-01-14T17:12:50Z")
I think it was based on fact the people there often believe in voodoo, which is in fact trying to invoke the devil, so maybe he is not entirely crazy, just an old man who may not express all his thoughts well. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/12 "2010-01-14T17:24:39Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > I think it was based on fact the people there often believe in voodoo, which is in fact trying to invoke the devil, so maybe he is not entirely crazy, just an old man who may not express all his thoughts well. How would blaming an earthquake on voodoo be any less crazy than blaming it on 200 year old Hatian folklore? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/13 "2010-01-14T17:28:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > The biblical devil works through the hearts of men, not through the Earth’s crust. There is no biblical story of the devil razing a city. There are plenty of stories of God doing it, but none of the Devil doing it. I think what Crazyman Robertson is suggesting is that since the devil’s lease period is up, God is now visiting his divine wrath upon the Haitians. For the sins of their great^10 grandfathers. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/14 "2010-01-14T17:30:18Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > I think it was based on fact the people there often believe in voodoo, which is in fact trying to invoke the devil, so maybe he is not entirely crazy, just an old man who may not express all his thoughts well. From [Religeous Tolerance](http://www.religioustolerance.org/). [This page.](http://www.religioustolerance.org/voodoo.htm) on Voudon. > [@](#): > > The purpose of rituals is to make contact with a spirit, to gain their favor by offering them animal sacrifices and gifts, to obtain help in the form of more abundant food, higher standard of living, and improved health. Human and Loa depend upon each other; humans provide food and other materials; the Loa provide health, protection from evil spirits and good fortune. Rituals are held to celebrate lucky events, to attempt to escape a run of bad fortune, to celebrate a seasonal day of celebration associated with a Loa, for healing, at birth, marriage and death. > [@](#): > > An evil, imaginary religion, which we will call Voodoo. It has been created for Hollywood movies, complete with violence, bizarre rituals, etc. It does not exist in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Jumpbass](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jumpbass/32/147_2.png) [@Jumpbass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jumpbass)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/15 "2010-01-14T17:40:27Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > I think it was based on fact the people there often believe in voodoo, which is in fact trying to invoke the devil, so maybe he is not entirely crazy, just an old man who may not express all his thoughts well. Nope, Haitian Vodou does not involve the devil. [cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou) Look under “Myths and Misconceptions” ETA- Oopsie… someone posted it while I was researching. I didn’t mean to flog a dead horse. I guess I made the mistake of reading my source material. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/16 "2010-01-14T17:41:20Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It’s important to recognize that Robertson’s ideas have no scriptural basis at all. The biblical devil works through the hearts of men, not through the Earth’s crust. There is no biblical story of the devil razing a city. There are plenty of stories of God doing it, but none of the Devil doing it. The devil is a tempter who has no real power of his own, but can subvert the will of others into doing his bidding. So unless there was a Haitian with powers like Samuel from Heroes who made a pact with the devil, then there’s no basis for this. > > But yeah, most likely, he’s referring to Voodoo. I think he was saying that God did it as punishment, not that the Devil did it. He has a long history of attributing natural disasters to God’s wrath. He and Jerry Falwell also said that 9/11 was God’s punishment on America for abortion and gays. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/17 "2010-01-14T17:44:33Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It’s important to recognize that Robertson’s ideas have no scriptural basis at all. The biblical devil works through the hearts of men, not through the Earth’s crust. There is no biblical story of the devil razing a city. There are plenty of stories of God doing it, but none of the Devil doing it. The devil is a tempter who has no real power of his own, but can subvert the will of others into doing his bidding. So unless there was a Haitian with powers like Samuel from Heroes who made a pact with the devil, then there’s no basis for this. It’s not really clear if Robertson thinks its the devil causing the quake, or God doing it to punish the Haitians for their ‘pact’. Given his previous statements that other disasters (Katrina) were punishments from God, I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he thinks God caused the quake, and not the devil. Not that that makes him less crazy, but at least he’s on firmer scriptural ground. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/18 "2010-01-14T17:46:15Z")
Are you there, Ardra? It’s us, Haiti. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/19 "2010-01-14T17:50:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think he was saying that God did it as punishment, not that the Devil did it. He has a long history of attributing natural disasters to God’s wrath. He and Jerry Falwell also said that 9/11 was God’s punishment on America for abortion and gays. And feminism. Mustn’t forget feminism. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940/20 "2010-01-14T18:00:32Z")
Well just because a cite says voodoo has no devil calling in it does not mean it is true. There are plenty of writings as well that the communists and nazis are nice folks too and just doing good, as well as the kkk, there would be plenty of such material around to cite. Maybe ALL voodoo is not evil, I can agree to that. But I have seen 18th century idols and stuff, and those dolls they stick pins in, not doing it to help promote the good guy I don’t think. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haitians-deal-with-the-devil/524940.md?page=2)