# Half-man, half-ape? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 8, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500 "2003-06-08T19:20:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500/21 "2003-06-11T16:55:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Padeye \* > \*\*That is just a matter of definition that was made before genetic testing. I in fact there is a movement to put chimpanzees into the Homo genus. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/05/20/humans.chimps.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/05/20/humans.chimps.ap/index.html) \*\* A fringe effort by a few scientist. It’s not going to happen any time soon, unless someone actually does produce a hybrid! This was also a GD thread a few weeks ago. I think it was called something like “Chimps are people, too”. I’m too lazy to do a search for it. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500/22 "2003-06-11T18:02:06Z")
John, my point was the argument is a faulty appeal to authority or circular argument because the classificaton was made by physical observation not for purely genetic reasons. Humans and Chimps are each a different genus. Why? Because they cannot produce hybrid offspring. Why not? Because they are each a different genus. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500/23 "2003-06-11T18:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Padeye \* > John, my point was the argument is a faulty appeal to authority or circular argument because the classificaton was made by physical observation not for purely genetic reasons. True. But also true of almost every other classifaction out there )for other animals). > [@](#): > > Humans and Chimps are each a different genus. Why? Because they cannot produce hybrid offspring. Why not? Because they are each a different genus. Mostly due to historical bias. We have had a strong prediliction to distance ourselves from “animals”. I agree that if we had it do over again, we might do it differently. But keep in mind that we even put our ancestors from 2-3M yrs ago, the Austraulopithicines, in a different genus. The most commonly used date for the chimp/human split is about 6M yrs ago. My statemenat that it’s not going to happen is more a recognition of the reality of situation, not an acknowledgement of wheter it’s a good idea or not. If you’re interested in a more detailed discussion about this, check out _The Third Chimpanzee_ by Jared Diamond. He’s a well respected scientist and has argued for putting chimps and humans in the same genus for a long time. Actually, we only have to be different species, not in a different genus, if we can’t produce hybrids. And even if we could produce different hybrids, we’d still be different species (just as no one argues to put horses and donkeys in the same species). If a hybrid were possible (without too much lab tinkering), then it would be pretty hard to maintain the seperate genus classification. That would turn an aweful lot of scientific (not to mention religious) thinking on its head. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500/24 "2003-06-11T19:40:17Z")
So we agree 😃 My Webster’s says taxonomy is the “orderly classification of plants and animals according to their **presumed** natural relationships.” Emphasis mine. My point to Polycarp was that genus has virtually no bearing on whether a chim/human hybrid is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500/25 "2003-06-11T19:49:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*Get me a female chimp! \*\* "Get your hands off me, you damn dirty… "Oh… “Oh, yeah, that’s nice…” _–bow chicka bow bow–_ ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500/26 "2003-06-11T20:41:22Z")
How about a [cow-man](http://www.rense.com/general12/dnan.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500/27 "2003-06-11T20:45:40Z")
Meanwhile, [down at the patent office](http://www.organicconsumers.org/Patent/rifikinhc.cfm), a human/chimp “manimal” is rejected. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500/28 "2003-06-12T00:00:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Padeye \* > \*\*So we agree 😃 My Webster’s says taxonomy is the “orderly classification of plants and animals according to their **presumed** natural relationships.” Emphasis mine. My point to Polycarp was that genus has virtually no bearing on whether a chim/human hybrid is possible. \*\* Yeah, I do agree with you. I just wanted to point out that there is nothing unique about the classification of humans and chimps based solely on physical characteristics. You’ve got to remember that we didn’t know anything about evolution or genetics when the whole genus/species deal was invented. We’re stuck with it now. It would be very interesting to see what an alien biologist would come up with if such a being landed here and decided to classify the lifeforms found. ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500/29 "2003-06-12T00:03:56Z")
## quote: ## I did a quick search and couldn’t find it. Funny. I know it was there, because I participated in it. So did I, so I’ll repeat my post: Michael Jackson and Bubbles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-man-half-ape/180500.md?page=1)