# Half of adult US population at eighth grade reading level or below???!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 3, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834 "2003-03-03T20:57:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/21 "2003-03-04T02:13:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\*Just for fun, I copied your post and ran it through MS Word’s grammar checker to get the grade level. It tells me that you wrote this at almost a 9th-grade level. I expect that scores like that are what’s used to determine the reading level. How that’s calculated, I have no idea. > > FYI, it assigned the OP a 12th-grade level. And this post got a 4th-grade level. \*\* I didn’t know you could do this, so I searched for “reading level” in the MS Word Help section. You can see the formulas used to come up with the score. Then I pasted several of my own posts into Word and scored them. I was shocked that most of them came out in the sixth grade level. I mean, I was a National Merit Scholar, scored in the top 2% of SATs back in the 70s, etc. I thought I was a pretty sophisticated guy, language-wise. And my scores were disappointing at first. But I’ve reinterpreted. Now I think it means I can make my ideas comprehensible to younger and/or dumber people. That seems a plus to me. Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. 🙂 PS My score in this post (to the end of the last paragraph) was 5.1 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/22 "2003-03-04T04:01:42Z")
I believe it was Asimov who once commented that, although nearly everyone in civilized countries **can** read these days, the percentage of people who actually **do** read on a regular basis has historically remained constant at about 5%. This I do not find surprising at all. ---
**Author:** ![Insecta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3da27b/32.png) [@Insecta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Insecta)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/23 "2003-03-04T04:07:38Z")
I personally feel that reading grade scores hangs largely on the length of your sentences. **Boyo Jim** , your sentences seem to be fairly short, so clearly you should go back to sixth grade and learn how to form obnoxiously long sentences that tail on forever, describing things in an unnecessarily complicated manner and essentially being downright rude. That last sentence hit the 12.0 grade level. Just for fun, the extract below also received the coveted twelve point O. It comes from a document where I was deliberately trying to hit it and isn’t too representative of my normal writing style: _“We had visited two of Ecuador’s three climate zones, so the next logical destination was the rainforest beyond the Andes. After another day in Quito we embarked on a five-hour bus ride through ever changing vegetation to the missionary town of Tena, nestled on the edge of the seemingly infinite Amazon jungle. In a nearby village we picked up guides, then the next day we boarded motorized canoes that were to be our transport for the jungle. The next four days were divided between trekking through the rainforest, visiting attractions, travelling in the canoes and relaxing in cabanas and on beaches. Some people enjoyed trekking in the jungle more than others, but we all agreed that it was fascinating, if a little repetitive on the longer walks. We got the exciting opportunity to visit Cayman mini-crocodiles in the night, as well as the chance to swing on a Tarzan vine! The absurdly placed (in the middle of the jungle!) attractions we visited, concerned the wildlife and native culture, and were extremely enlightening, adding a lot to the experience. Canoe travel was a calm experience for the most part, as we zipped down (or up) the widest rivers I have ever seen, so vast they seemed like moving lakes. The accommodation was like paradise, with simple cabanas, hammocks strung in every conceivable place, tropical food and river to swim in. There was a big phobia of bugs, snakes and the like present in the group, but although we saw everything from spiders in trousers, scorpions in bedrooms and large tarantulas, they proved to be no problem at all. In fact, what most of the group had been expecting as an uncomfortable experience, turned out to be an extremely relaxing and pleasurable end to the trip.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/24 "2003-03-04T05:53:47Z")
When I was in fourth grade, my teacher was encouraging us to start reading the daily paper. She told us that the average newspaper article was written at about a sixth-grade reading level, so there really wouldn’t be very much, reading-wise, that we wouldn’t be able to understand. Why are newspapers written at such a “low” reading level? It’s because journalists want to get information across in a clear, concise, and accessible manner, rather than get bogged down in a bunch of subordinate clauses and SAT vocabulary. They want people to read the news rather than spend hours _studying_ it. **Boyo Jim** is exactly right–it’s good to write clearly, and it does not mean that your mind is necessarily working at the sixth-grade level. What it does mean is that you are more likely to get your information across to a wider audience, and that your words will be _read_ rather than _studied_. My husband and I are no dummies. I graduated from high school with honors and have two years of college; my husband was a National Merit Scholar and has his bachelor’s degree. However, car seat instructions are among the most poorly written documents on Earth! They really are confusing. If it was that bad for us, can you imagine the frustration of someone with less education, or with limited English skills? You should not need to go to college in order to put a car seat in a car! I think the problems is less “people are soooooo dumb these days” and more “people who write these instructions can’t write worth crap and couldn’t get a point across clearly to save their lives”. [sub]This post is written at a 6th grade reading level.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/25 "2003-03-04T06:08:19Z")
Interesting, I just gramar checked one of my papers I submitted for a University course I took a couple of semesters ago. It got the coveted 12.0 on the Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level, but a mere 12.4 on the Flesch Reading Ease score. Sooo - just about exactly what a psych paper should be - gramatically perfect, but almost impossible to understand. 😃 Interestingly, this post is also at the 12.0 level, but understandability sky-rocketed to 40. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/26 "2003-03-04T06:11:00Z")
Oh hell. Can you folks just add a few “m”'s in at the appropriate spots? Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/27 "2003-03-04T06:18:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Janie Jones \* > \*\*That’s unpossible! > > \ \*\* Wasn’t that Ralph Wiggam? ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/28 "2003-03-04T06:32:04Z")
I’ll never buy a car seat, so I have no idea what sort of language the installation instructions are written in. I tried Googling, but only found articles about it being written too hard. The only thing mentioned that gave some idea was the following from [CNN:](http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/03/03/car.seats.ap/) > [@](#): > > For example, ‘collision,’ ‘automobile,’ and ‘remedied’ could be replaced by ‘crash,’ ‘car,’ and ‘fixed,"’ according to the study Anybody have an instruction booklet they don’t mind giving examples from, or has anybody come across an online version of the instructions ? This has got me very curious as to what is considered “too hard”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/29 "2003-03-04T14:27:52Z")
1. When they say “reads at an eighth grade level,” you have to understand that that’s usually based on some arbitrarily chosen national or state standard for eighth grade reading ability. I think you will find such standards are reasonably good. If you can read at the state/nationally set eighth grade level, you can read most things. A smart eighth grader is a proficient reader. 2. Those computer “Grade level” tests are baloney. Ernest Hemingway isn’t really Grade 5 material, ya know. Any test that bases grade level on syllables per word and sentence length is out to lunch. 3. The point, which I think is being missed, about the “simplify the car seats” bit is not that the purchasers of car seats are stupid. (Though, as usual, it gives the self-declared SDMB illuminati the chance to trot out the hoary old “people, except myself, are so stupid and I was reading Proust in Grade 3 and the kids hated me because I was so smart I have a 193 IQ blah blah blah” lines.) It’s that technical writing in consumer documents is just friggin’ terrible. Have you guys READ an instruction manual lately? Half of them appear to be written by people who don’t care if the device is installed properly or not. I’m a reasonably smart guy, graduated from university, but the instructions to my father’s satellite receiver had me absolutely stumped. The instructions to my new “Master of Orion III” game may as well be written in Sanskrit for all the good they do me. My attempts to make minor repairs to my Hyundai Elantra have frequently been foiled by the owner’s manual. Avoiding run-on sentences and twenty-dollar words is just one way they’re trying to remedy - er, fix that problem. They need to make other changes, too. ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/30 "2003-03-04T14:48:54Z")
> [@](#): > > The instructions to my new “Master of Orion III” game may as well be written in Sanskrit for all the good they do me. [hijack] You’re not alone; I don’t have MOO3 yet, but I’ve heard many complaints about the manual. [/hijack/ RR ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/31 "2003-03-04T17:04:49Z")
**ultrafilter** gave me the idea to play around with that MS Word function a little bit. Here are some interesting examples: > [@](#): > > In this very attitude did I sit when I called to him, rapidly stating what it was I wanted him to do—namely, to examine a small paper with me. Imagine my surprise, nay, my consternation, when without moving from his privacy, Bartleby in a singularly mild, firm voice, replied, “I would prefer not to.” --Herman Melville, “Bartleby the Scrivener” Reading ease: 46.6 Grade level: 12.0 > [@](#): > > Through all their pains and depravation, the Cuban people’s aspirations for freedom are undiminished. We see this today in Havana where more than 11,000 brave citizens have petitioned their government for a referendum on basic freedoms. If that referendum is allowed, it can be a prelude, a beginning for real change in Cuba. – President George W. Bush, Remarks on US-Cuba relations Reading ease: 38.8 Grade level: 12.0 > [@](#): > > What did it matter where you lay once you were dead? In a dirty sump or in a marble tower on top of a high hill. You were dead, you were sleeping the big sleep, you were not bothered by things like that. Oil and water were the same as wind and air to you. You just slept the big sleep, not caring about the nastiness of how you died or where you fell. Me, I was part of the nastiness now. – Raymond Chandler, _The Big Sleep_ Reading ease: 89.7 Grade level: 4.1 > [@](#): > > Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow > Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, > To the last syllable of recorded time; > And all our yesterdays have lighted fools > The way to dusty death. Out, out brief candle! > Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player > That struts and frets his hour upon the stage > And then is heard no more: it is a tale > Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, > Signifying nothing. > – William Shakespeare, _MacBeth_ Reading ease: 72.3 Grade level: 4.0 ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/32 "2003-03-04T18:55:09Z")
I’d argue with the OP in that I consider it doubtful that most adults are even reading the directions, or giving them more than a passing glance. I’m guilty of this all the time, myself… Anyway, it’s hard to make an assumption about average reading level here when the directions might not be read in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/33 "2003-03-04T19:46:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by slortar \* > \*\*I’d argue with the OP in that I consider it doubtful that most adults are even reading the directions, or giving them more than a passing glance. I’m guilty of this all the time, myself… > > Anyway, it’s hard to make an assumption about average reading level here when the directions might not be read in the first place. \*\* Your arguement makes little sence. Shall we argue that we cant properly assess the reading level of William Shakespear because alot of people dont read plays? I think it is fairly assumed that the level of understanding of a set of directions has to have at the very least a premise of actually reading it first. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/34 "2003-03-04T20:54:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jonpluc \* > \*\*Your arguement makes little sence. Shall we argue that we cant properly assess the reading level of William Shakespear because alot of people dont read plays? I think it is fairly assumed that the level of understanding of a set of directions has to have at the very least a premise of actually reading it first. \*\* Eye’ll trie too xplane. Heer’s pairte off thee OP, inn caise you neede refreshifying: 😃 > [@](#): > > I was reading an article on car seats and it was determined that too many people were improperly installing them because the instructions were written at a 10th grade level. The article referenced in the first sentence seems to be making the point that a) car seats are being installed improperly and b) this is because the people installing the seats have inadequate reading skills. While I haven’t read the article, it seems to be quite a stretch. Couldn’t there be alternate explanations? I believe a number of alternate explanations have already been given (favorite so far is that the technical manuals themselves are poorly written). How big a stretch is it to assume that some of these improper installations is due to people not even reading the darn things in the first place? I’m not quite sure where you made the jump from my statement to William Shakespeare. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/35 "2003-03-04T20:56:05Z")
Wow, you are the OP. I’m dense. I still stand by my rebuttal. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/36 "2003-03-05T03:17:35Z")
Your rebuttal is nonsense.The issue is the reading level of the instructions printed for car seat installation. Nowhere does it discount the people that puruse or half read or dont read the directions. The exact issue at hand is the reading level of the directions printed for people that actually read the full and complete thing with the goal of understanding car seat installation. Period. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/37 "2003-03-05T03:28:07Z")
the word “discount” in my previous post should read “allow” Sorry ---
**Author:** ![tcdaniel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@tcdaniel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tcdaniel)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/38 "2003-03-05T04:29:56Z")
With all the Universal Signs we all see every day, it’s a wonder readin’ isn’t phased out and viola - phase in Universal Sign Interpretation. So instead of reading I-4 Orlando - a Universally recognized mouse head sign will guide everyone to MickeyWorld. In a way, reading is not endorsed or encouraged, because it creates people who might get some looney ideas from reading inappropriate or questionable material. Reading also requires mental concentration, which most Americans no patience for. Instant gratification usually requires little or no concentration. I’m sure Homer Simpson would vouche for that and give us a lesson or two. Doooh ---
**Author:** ![markdiscordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@markdiscordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdiscordia)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/39 "2003-03-05T04:46:35Z")
Anecdotally, a great deal of the people I encounter seem functionally illiterate. I work in a retail environment, and I get a lot of people pointing to pictures, missing obvious lettering on signs and in ads, and exhibiting other behavior that makes me wonder whether their angular gyri have atrophied. ---
**Author:** ![dylan\_73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecccb3/32.png) [@dylan\_73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dylan_73)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2003, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834/40 "2003-03-05T11:41:27Z")
This is an attempt to score highly and inoculate myself from the stigma of having a low grade level. Of course, any particular nonsense can be written in a blue furry manner just to gain in respectability and converse with the greatest of confabulation. I now know what it feels like to write as a post-modernist but I must keep this sentence going since it drags down my score if I don’t ramble on meaninglessly for grinning after pathos, ignoring the fact that any reader will have long since lost interest in whatever idiocy I wanted to spew forth in the first place. Flesch Reading Ease: 45.4 Flesch-Kincaid Grade Leve: 12.0 Grade level does not good for writing stuff make. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-adult-us-population-at-eighth-grade-reading-level-or-below/158834.md?page=3)