# "Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon, survey finds" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2022, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314 "2022-07-21T12:49:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/221 "2022-08-13T17:32:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The objective reality is that there are people who prefer to present as a different gender\<…\> And the objective reality is that there are people who prefer to present as Napoleon Bonaparte. > \<…\> than the one they were assigned at birth. Assigned by reality you mean? Or do you actually think that gender is entirely a social construct? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/222 "2022-08-13T18:19:40Z")
ISTM that gender is both physical and psychological. A person may have male parts but their brain identifies as female (as one example). That is the reality for many people. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/223 "2022-08-13T18:39:48Z")
And yet more: > **['We have guns too': Trump supporters flood TikTok with threats of civil war](https://www.dailydot.com/debug/trump-supporters-tiktok-civil-war/)** > > Trump supporters are flooding TikTok with videos about civil war in response to numerous political issues. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/224 "2022-08-13T19:13:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > ISTM that gender is both physical and psychological. A person may have male parts but their brain identifies as female (as one example). That is the reality for many people. Absolutely true, and I didn’t mean to imply that gender dysphoria isn’t a real condition or that transgender surgery isn’t the best option in many cases. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/225 "2022-08-13T22:44:16Z")
Moderating: > [@Lumpy](#): > > > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > > The objective reality is that there are people who prefer to present as a different gender\<…\> > > And the objective reality is that there are people who prefer to present as Napoleon Bonaparte Thank you for your later clarification, but this is a very sensitive subject, and I’d like to remind you: > [@Reorganized SDMB rules](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reorganized-sdmb-rules/968857/1): > > - Please do not state or imply that transgender people are mentally ill. We realize the question remains controversial. However, we’re not going to settle the matter here, and raising it tends to poison other discussion of transgender issues. Please keep your opinions on the subject to yourself. > - Do not deliberately misgender another poster – that is, refer to them by a pronoun or other sex-specific term indicating a gender other than the one they identify as. This applies only in cases where a poster’s gender identity is reasonably clear. Likewise, do not deliberately misgender off-board figures. Comparing a transgender person to someone who thinks they are Napoleon is suggesting they are mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2022, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/226 "2022-08-14T02:03:31Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Could it be different now? I don’t know. A major economic downturn could certainly change things. Yeah, and if a black guy was elected president that would seal it. /s ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/227 "2022-08-15T11:48:04Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Assigned by reality you mean? Or do you actually think that gender is entirely a social construct? Pretty much. The reality is lots of people are born with genitals that defy your standard male/female definitions – it’s perfectly possible to have a penis & ovaries, for example. In addition, most of the characteristics used to assign gender (e.g. a beard) are a result of hormonal/chemical balances, which occur on a spectrum, it’s not just on/off. Intersex is the term scientists use. As a result many people quite literally have to choose a gender (or have it chosen by their parents). Gender is no more black/white (male/female) than hair color and I can’t believe thinking adults don’t know this. People need to leave the house more often. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/228 "2022-08-15T16:05:18Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > > [@Lumpy](#): > > > > Assigned by reality you mean? Or do you actually think that gender is entirely a social construct? > > Pretty much. The reality is lots of people are born with genitals that defy your standard male/female definitions – it’s perfectly possible to have a penis & ovaries, for example. In addition, most of the characteristics used to assign gender (e.g. a beard) are a result of hormonal/chemical balances, which occur on a spectrum, it’s not just on/off. Intersex is the term scientists use. As a result many people quite literally have to choose a gender (or have it chosen by their parents). Gender is no more black/white (male/female) than hair color and I can’t believe thinking adults don’t know this. I dunno about “lots” of people. I would have thought that, except for people affecting to be genderqueer, that the “grey area” is very narrow compared to the number of people for whom gender is unambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/229 "2022-08-15T16:11:59Z")
I don’t see that it matters how common it is. Once you acknowledge that there _is_ a gray area of people who don’t fit neatly into one of the two boxes you want people to fit into, then ISTM that you acknowledge that assigning gender at birth _sometimes_ requires a judgement call. And once those folks are grown and sentient, they should be free to change their gender from what they were assigned based on that judgement call. And once all that is acknowledged, everything after is just an invasion of privacy. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/230 "2022-08-15T16:56:09Z")
You can show fringe cases for virtually any kind of categorization at all; that doesn’t mean that categories don’t exist or are completely arbitrary. And I think that your own statement that “Gender is no more black/white (male/female) than hair color” itself appeals to claiming that how common it is matters. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/231 "2022-08-15T17:01:37Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > You can show fringe cases for virtually any kind of categorization at all; that doesn’t mean that categories don’t exist or are completely arbitrary. A statement I didn’t make. > [@Lumpy](#): > > And I think that your own statement that “Gender is no more black/white (male/female) than hair color” itself appeals to claiming that how common it is matters. A statement I also didn’t make, because it was Ziberian who said that. Care to address anything I _actually_ said? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/232 "2022-08-15T18:11:33Z")
Although I see the connection in subject matter, may I suggest, without being a junior mod about it, that arguing whether people have the right to be the gender they feel they are is a tangent to the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/233 "2022-08-15T20:28:14Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I dunno about “lots” of people. I would have thought that, except for people affecting to be genderqueer, that the “grey area” is very narrow compared to the number of people for whom gender is unambiguous. I don’t see that it matters how common it is, like steronz said. But to put it into perspective, I think it’s about as common as red hair. If you denied red haired people the use of public rest rooms, or the right to marry, it’d be a pretty big problem. “At a time when transgender and nonbinary Americans are gaining visibility in the media and among the public, a new Pew Research Center survey finds that 1.6% of U.S. adults are transgender or nonbinary – that is, their gender differs from the sex they were assigned at birth.” > **[About 5% of young adults in the U.S. say their gender is different from their...](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/)** > > 1.6% of U.S. adults are transgender or nonbinary. Also, a rising share of Americans say they know someone who is transgender. " **Red hair** (also known as **orange hair** and **ginger hair** ) is a [hair colour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_hair_color) found in one to two percent of the [human population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population), appearing with greater frequency (two to six percent) among people of [Northern](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Europe) or [Northwestern European](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_Europe) ancestry and lesser frequency in other populations." > **[Red hair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair)** > > Red hair, also known as orange hair or ginger hair, is a human hair color found in 1–2% of the world population, appearing with greater frequency (2–6%) among people of Northern or Northwestern European ancestry and lesser frequency in other populations. It is most common in individuals homozygous for a recessive allele on chromosome 16 that produces an altered version of the MC1R protein. > Red hair varies in hue from a deep burgundy or bright copper, or auburn, to burnt orange or red-orange t... P.S. Yes, perhaps this is getting too far from the OP. Sorry if so. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/234 "2022-08-15T23:23:28Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Yeah, and if a black guy was elected president that would seal it. /s I imagine their collective brains would explode if Kamala Harris was elected president (or worse, Stacey Abrams). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2022, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/235 "2022-08-15T23:36:38Z")
**Harris/Abrams 2024** ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/236 "2022-08-17T21:50:00Z")
I’d prefer that the other way round. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314/237 "2022-08-17T22:28:03Z")
I understand. That’s what I have been thinking, as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-americans-anticipate-a-u-s-civil-war-soon-survey-finds/968314.md?page=11)