# Half of Republicans Believe Trump's Illegal Vote Lie **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2018, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049 "2018-05-29T11:16:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/81 "2018-06-03T04:39:19Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Your first link is to one (1) incident from 2012. Your second is to a pile of self-serving, cherry-picked, misleading Spakovsky alarmism. > > C-. Please try harder next time. > . Here is the information from the GAO report regarding non-citizens called for jury duty: > [@](#): > > AOUSC officials and federal jury administrators we spoke with generally > did not have exact data on the number of people called for jury service > that responded that they were non-citizens. Consequently, no information > was available from federal jury administrators in six U.S. district courts, > but federal jury administrators in eight U.S. district courts provided either > exact numbers or estimates. Of the eight district courts, four federal jury > administrators said no one had been disqualified from jury service because > they were not U.S. citizens. In the other four district courts: > > • a federal jury administrator in one U.S. district court estimated that 1 to > 3 percent of the people out of a jury pool of 30,000 over 2 years (about > 300 to 900 people) said they were not U.S. citizens; > > • a federal jury administrator in a second U.S. district court estimated > that less than 1 percent of the people out of a jury pool of 35,000 names > each month (less than 350 people) said they were not U.S. citizens; > > • a federal jury administrator in a third U.S. district court estimated that > about 150 people out of a jury pool of 95,000 names over 2 years said > they were not U.S. citizens; and > > • a federal jury administrator in a fourth U.S. district court estimated that > annually about 5 people typically claimed non-citizenship in a jury pool > of about 50,000 individuals. > > Of the 14 U.S. district courts contacted, only the jury administrator for the > Eastern District of Virginia provided feedback to voter registration > authorities if a prospective juror claimed not to be a U.S. citizen. Of the 13 > U.S. district courts that do not currently provide feedback, none planned > to do so in the future. > **[gao-05-478.pdf](https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-05-478.pdf)** > > 1681.46 KB So the extrapolation is based on this report. The problem is that we don’t which of the people claiming non-citizen status truly are not, or are just trying to get out of jury duty. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/82 "2018-06-03T06:21:19Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > What, you want a 432-3 majority in the House, 99-1 in the Senate, 50-state sweep of the Presidency and Governors, or else something’s wrong? Well, that’s what _I_ want. But I want the smaller numbers to represent the GOP. Once they’re disbanded, we can start working on the Democratic Party (although it’s likely that they’ll just fracture without any interference being required). > **[We're kind of stupid that way | Calvin and Hobbes](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/814993-calvin-and-hobbes)** > > See more 'Calvin and Hobbes' images on Know Your Meme! ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/83 "2018-06-03T13:39:53Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Your first link is to one (1) incident from 2012. Your second is to a pile of self-serving, cherry-picked, misleading Spakovsky alarmism. > > C-. Please try harder next time. > . But, the point is that we have illegal aliens who have voted. Without good data, we don’t know if it’s a huge problem, probable not, or if it’s a minor inconvenience, which it probable is. It’s really a talking point for both sides, far right screams, it’s a huge problem and we need to id voters. The far left screams, the right is racist for even saying we should id voters. Both sides point fingers to score points. But neither side really knows if it’s a problem or not. "How wide spread, who knows, we don’t have good data and the data we do have is on such a small scale it’s almost worthless. " Notice I stated we don’t have good data, that means we really can’t draw any conclusions, as the report that Algher (thank you BTW) pointed too, it gave people something they could expand on to make the statement that, millions of illegal aliens voted. You could also use the report to say, it’s not a problem. Again it comes down to bad data or a very small sample size. In the end we know, that some number if illegal aliens voted, we don’t know the number. I’m of the opinion that in most cases, a small number of bad votes probably doesn’t make a difference, as the winner has won by such a margin that a few votes either way wouldn’t change the outcome. But, there are a few rare cases were a single vote could change the outcome. In some cases if even a small percentage of votes were cast by people who couldn’t vote, you could change the whole country. Take Florida, and the Bush Gore election, depending on who’s numbers and how they were counted, there was as few as 3 votes difference, so take a few away from Bush, or add a few to Gore and we would have President Gore. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/84 "2018-06-03T13:43:02Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Cleary there was voter fraud on a massive scale. > > How else could Trump have been elected? Russians and their bots and their hacking attempts… plus Repub asswipes disenfranchising REAL voters through “voter ID” and gerrymandering. . ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/85 "2018-06-03T13:44:39Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, that’s what _I_ want. > > But I want the smaller numbers to represent the GOP. Once they’re disbanded, we can start working on the Democratic Party (although it’s likely that they’ll just fracture without any interference being required). > [We're kind of stupid that way | Calvin and Hobbes | Know Your Meme](http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/814993-calvin-and-hobbes) Sounds good. There is no Repub party anymore anyway. It’s the Trump party (or the Putin party actually). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/86 "2018-06-03T23:00:42Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > In some cases if even a small percentage of votes were cast by people who couldn’t vote, you could change the whole country. Take Florida, and the Bush Gore election, depending on who’s numbers and how they were counted, there was as few as 3 votes difference, so take a few away from Bush, or add a few to Gore and we would have President Gore. My god, you’re right. You should have checked if Renquist, Scalia and Thomas were illegal aliens! ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/87 "2018-06-04T04:20:33Z")
So, the Republicans still believe the Democrats bussed in millions of illegal voters against them? So, the Democrats still believe the Republicans sold state secrets to Russian hackers to directly edit election results? So what new? American politics has never been and never will be about the people voting their will to select the most competent leader, it has been and will be about some silly gameshow. Something like “who’s got talent”, except more like “who spent more money”. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/88 "2018-06-04T04:28:57Z")
I’m the first to admit that I don’t know the extent of Russian activity surrounding the 2016 presidential election. That’s why we have investigations. However, we do know the Russian history and methods of operation that have not changed. They’re basically analogous to the guy that walks down the alley trying the back door on every business till they find one that ain’t locked. We also know that of the money appropriated to secure our election system trump hasn’t spent one dime of it. Very telling. The Russians may not have changed their methodology since the Cold War days, but one thing _has_ changed and that’s their goals. The natural ally of the Communists was the poor and dispossessed. The natural ally of the oligarchs running Russia these days are their would-be counterparts in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/89 "2018-06-04T05:03:30Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > So, the Republicans still believe the Democrats bussed in millions of illegal voters against them? > So, the Democrats still believe the Republicans sold state secrets to Russian hackers to directly edit election results? > So what new? > American politics has never been and never will be about the people voting their will to select the most competent leader, it has been and will be about some silly gameshow. Something like “who’s got talent”, except more like “who spent more money”. Oddly enough, I don’t seem to remember “Russians are hacking the presidential election” to have been a thing before the last election. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/90 "2018-06-04T10:20:58Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Here is the information from the GAO report regarding non-citizens called for jury duty: > > [https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05478.pdf](https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05478.pdf) > > So the extrapolation is based on this report. The problem is that we don’t which of the people claiming non-citizen status truly are not, or are just trying to get out of jury duty. I didn’t click the link. Many states derive jury lists from sources _other_ than voter rolls, no? Did the allegedly non-citizen jurors all come from voter rolls? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/91 "2018-06-04T20:40:00Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > So the extrapolation is based on this report. The problem is that we don’t which of the people claiming non-citizen status truly are not, or are just trying to get out of jury duty. Another point is that this report just talks about non-citizens. The Trump claim is instead about illegal aliens. I can believe that there is some non-zero percentage of non-citizens who are mistaken in believing that they’re entitled to vote. I can’t believe that there would be more than a handful of illegal aliens who vote. The process of getting registered would have to be knowingly fraudulent, there’s way too much risk (vote fraud is treated harshly), and almost zero reward. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/92 "2018-06-04T20:41:08Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > So, the Republicans still believe the Democrats bussed in millions of illegal voters against them? Yes, apparently many do. > [@](#): > > So, the Democrats still believe the Republicans sold state secrets to Russian hackers to directly edit election results? Huh? This is not a thing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/93 "2018-06-05T07:49:08Z")
Sell? Of course not! But if someone should absentmindedly leave them on a park bench somewhere… ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/94 "2018-06-05T14:48:31Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Oddly enough, I don’t seem to remember “Russians are hacking the presidential election” to have been a thing before the last election. Imagine how furious Nixon would have been. He _hated_ the Rooskies. According to Michelle Goldberg in today’s NYT, the short-fingered vulgarian enjoys an 87% approval rating among Republicans. Clearly a hefty percentage of that group is willing to accept as fact any lies he tweets. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/95 "2018-06-05T14:51:28Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I can’t believe that there would be more than a handful of illegal aliens who vote. The process of getting registered would have to be knowingly fraudulent, there’s way too much risk (vote fraud is treated harshly), and almost zero reward. Plus, it’s giving The Authorities the information they need to find and deport your ass. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/96 "2018-06-07T07:21:37Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Yeah, Trump’s claims are idiotic. Really, truly, and without a doubt idiotic. Yet he won. So where does that leave the milions of people who voted for him? Even still, where does that leave the millions of people who still support him? “A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims… but accomplices” ― George Orwell ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049/97 "2018-06-08T18:07:57Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > “A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims… but accomplices” > > ― George Orwell Well, it’s a good thing that “a people” / the people didn’t elect Trump. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-republicans-believe-trumps-illegal-vote-lie/815049.md?page=4)