# Half of Trump's voters believe in pizzagate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777 "2016-12-28T15:23:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/21 "2016-12-28T19:26:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > On the spectrum of plausibility, Russian interference ranks well above child sex-trafficking in basement of a restaurant that doesn’t have a basement. > > I’ll have to read your cite more carefully later on, but the text suggests the poll questions allow gradations (i.e. something is “definitely true”, “possibly true”, “possibly not true”, “definitely not true”) but the results are divided starkly into “true” vs “not true”. If 50% of Clinton voters though Russian interference was “possibly true”, that’s far better than 50% of Trump voters saying pizzagate is “definitely true”, for example. Here is the [data](https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ljv2ohxmzj/econTabReport.pdf): Russia tampered with vote tallies in order to get Donald Trump elected President Democrats: 17% “Definitely True”, 35% “Probably True” vs. Leaked email from some of Hillary Clinton’s campaign staffers contained code words for pedophilia, human trafficking and satanic ritual abuse - what some people refer to as ’Pizzagate’. Republicans: 9% “Definitely True”, 40% “Probably True” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/22 "2016-12-28T19:28:48Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The willingness of USAians to believe patent horseshit, from Christianity to UFOs to conspiracy theories a toddler could debunk, is cultural. I believe it stems from the actual class stratification of our “classless” society; the lower classes know they are outranked and thus invent realities that make them superior in their own minds. And there’s a classic example of someone believing complete BS because it fits their preconceived ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/23 "2016-12-28T19:37:30Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The question was not about “Russian interference”. > > It was “Russia tampered with vote tallies”. Well, what _exactly_ was the question, and what _exactly_ was the range of acceptable responses? If it was: Q: Russia tampered with vote tallies. Acceptable answers: “Definitely true”, “probably true”, “possibly true”, “probably not true”, “definitely not true”. I don’t think “possibly true” is problematic, but if anyone who recognized the possibility gets tossed into the “true” group, I’d say that was misleading. I’d personally answer “probably not true”, pending solid evidence of Russia interference or solid evidence that no interference occurred by any reasonable standard. ETA: I see you’ve clarified in a follow-up, so I’ll review. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/24 "2016-12-28T19:43:39Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Here is the [data](https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ljv2ohxmzj/econTabReport.pdf): > > Russia tampered with vote tallies in order to get Donald Trump elected President > > Democrats: 17% “Definitely True”, 35% “Probably True” > > vs. > > Leaked email from some of Hillary Clinton’s campaign staffers contained code words for pedophilia, human trafficking and satanic ritual abuse - what some people refer to as ’Pizzagate’. > > Republicans: 9% “Definitely True”, 40% “Probably True” Democrats seems to come off worse _if_ the two premises were equally plausible, but they’re not. Russian tampering is unlikely, but pizzagate is pure fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/25 "2016-12-28T20:02:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Democrats seems to come off worse _if_ the two premises were equally plausible, but they’re not. Russian tampering is unlikely, but pizzagate is pure fantasy. There is also the fact that it is the case that russia attempted to influence our election in one way or another, Putin even bragged about it. So, a democrat answering this question, I could see answering it incorrectly because of all of the russia stuff in the news. It’s not like Russia was not attempting to mess with our election, and I’m sure they would have messed with vote tallies if they were able to. A republican answering the pizzagate question has to have bought into the whole thing that was made up out of whole cloth in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/26 "2016-12-28T20:04:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Democrats seems to come off worse _if_ the two premises were equally plausible, but they’re not. Russian tampering is unlikely, but pizzagate is pure fantasy. The way the questions were asked, that’s incorect. Russian tampering with vote tallies - there is no evidence for it whatsoever. So “pure fantasy” applies. The code words in emails - yes, there were some weird references in the emails. Some is just some awkward phrasing, (“Would love to get pizza for an hour?”) and some is a bit weird: “The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yorus(sic)? They can send it if you want. I know you’re busy, so feel free not to respond if it’s not yours or you don’t want it.” and “PS. Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?” Those emails take it out of realm of “pure fantasy” and into “misinterpretation”. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/27 "2016-12-28T20:19:39Z")
Haven’t we already established that at least [27%](http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html) of the voting public is, objectively, crazy? And the real number of crazy voters is almost certainly higher since it excludes crazy liberals. Since the 27% likely voted for Trump, and since he got about half of the votes, it makes perfect sense that half of his voters are gob-stoppingly traumatic-brain-injury-level crazy. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/28 "2016-12-28T20:28:24Z")
There is nothing plausible about “pizzagate”. Sorry, but anyone who believed any bit of it is a dumb person, and should feel bad. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/29 "2016-12-28T20:46:59Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Russian tampering with vote tallies - there is no evidence for it whatsoever. So “pure fantasy” applies. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We don’t know if Russia tried to affect the vote tallies. It’s possible, however unlikely, that they did so in a undetectable way. We do know the pizza parlor has no basement where the child sex ring was supposed to be located. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/30 "2016-12-28T20:58:44Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > That a large segment of the population will believe the damnednest fucked shit is old news. I think recent events just made them feel they have social permission to admit they do. The difference is that now, thanks to the various internet-enabled communications tools, there is nothing stopping the deluge of bullshit for these people to believe. I used to think it was amazing that the internet gave everyone a press- now I am starting to think it’s terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/31 "2016-12-28T20:59:03Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The way the questions were asked, that’s incorect. > > Russian tampering with vote tallies - there is no evidence for it whatsoever. So “pure fantasy” applies. > > The code words in emails - yes, there were some weird references in the emails. Some is just some awkward phrasing, (“Would love to get pizza for an hour?”) and some is a bit weird: “The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yorus(sic)? They can send it if you want. I know you’re busy, so feel free not to respond if it’s not yours or you don’t want it.” and “PS. Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?” > > Those emails take it out of realm of “pure fantasy” and into “misinterpretation”. I have not suffered a sufficiently recent head injury to allow me to follow you down this particular rabbit hole. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/32 "2016-12-28T21:00:43Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. > > We don’t know if Russia tried to affect the vote tallies. It’s possible, however unlikely, that they did so in a undetectable way. We do know the pizza parlor has no basement where the child sex ring was supposed to be located. The question in the poll didn’t ask about basements or pizza parlors. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/33 "2016-12-28T21:08:10Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > [Here you go](http://crooksandliars.com/2016/09/wow-mind-blown-daily-shows-jordan-klepper): That should make any rational American contemplate suicide. And if in fact the same imbeciles could be found at a Hillary rally that would not make it better. I mean, the guy who wants to know why Obama wasn’t in the office on 9/11? Really? Normally I wait until after dinner to start drinking… ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/34 "2016-12-28T21:16:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And there’s a classic example of someone believing complete BS because it fits their preconceived ideas. Bite me, John. Take a big bite to compensate for your general turn towards being such an unrelenting shitmeister around here. If you don’t think the struggling working “class” is a class that sees itself as losing the game - because others of “higher class” have “won” or cheated them or gotten things their way or whatever, and that the vote last November wasn’t a class revolt, then you’re overdue for your IQ shots this month. Whether you want to define them in good ol’ 'Murrican “working class” terms or the broader and more accurate socioeconomic class terms everyone else in the world uses without irony, this is the “class” that believes all this cockamamie horseshit. I’m suggesting that it’s all from the same source: when your life sucks, (a) blame someone else for it, whether that’s justified or not and (b) latch onto a mythology that proves you’re really right and one of the anointed and informed. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/35 "2016-12-28T21:16:48Z")
(Quote function not functioning.) Leaked email from some of Hillary Clinton’s campaign staffers contained code words for pedophilia, human trafficking and satanic ritual abuse - what some people refer to as ’Pizzagate’. Republicans: 9% “Definitely True”, 40% “Probably True” From page 60 of that PDF, 40% of Republicans polled thought that statement was probably true. That is spactacularly fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/36 "2016-12-28T21:18:37Z")
(Quote function not functioning.) Okrahoma posted earlier: Leaked email from some of Hillary Clinton’s campaign staffers contained code words for pedophilia, human trafficking and satanic ritual abuse - what some people refer to as ’Pizzagate’. Republicans: 9% “Definitely True”, 40% “Probably True” (end the quote) I say here and now: From page 60 of that PDF, 40% of Republicans polled thought that statement was probably true. That is spactacularly fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/37 "2016-12-28T21:21:29Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Half of Trumps voters like puppies. With or without ketchup? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/38 "2016-12-28T21:25:12Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > With or without ketchup? You _never_ put ketchup on hot dogs. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/39 "2016-12-28T21:26:51Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The question in the poll didn’t ask about basements or pizza parlors. I wasn’t talking about the polls. I was pointing out your statement "Russian tampering with vote tallies - _there is no evidence for it whatsoever. So “pure fantasy” applies."_ is incorrect [my italics; two r’s in incorrect]. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/40 "2016-12-28T21:29:59Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > That should make any rational American contemplate suicide. And if in fact the same imbeciles could be found at a Hillary rally that would not make it better. > > I mean, the guy who wants to know why Obama wasn’t in the office on 9/11? Really? > > Normally I wait until after dinner to start drinking… Well, Obama _is_ a secret Muslim, so you know he was probably in on the planning. One of today’s articles in the _Washington Post_: [Americans — especially but not exclusively Trump voters — believe crazy, wrong things](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/12/28/americans-especially-but-not-exclusively-trump-voters-believe-crazy-wrong-things/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-d%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.2cb49e35638c) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777.md?page=3)