# Half of Trump's voters believe in pizzagate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777 "2016-12-28T15:23:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/41 "2016-12-28T21:34:53Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > I wasn’t talking about the polls. I was pointing out your statement "Russian tampering with vote tallies - _there is no evidence for it whatsoever. So “pure fantasy” applies."_ is incorrect [my italics; two r’s in incorrect]. I think that when something is stated with no evidence to support it whatsoever, it is “pure fantasy”. Almost by definition. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/42 "2016-12-28T21:43:47Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I think that when something is stated with no evidence to support it whatsoever, it is “pure fantasy”. Almost by definition. YMMV. I see you’re familiar with the President-Elect’s oral and Twitter diarrhea. But, wait a minute, Trump supporters actually believe his BS. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/43 "2016-12-28T21:55:06Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Haven’t we already established that at least [27%](http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html) of the voting public is, objectively, crazy? And the real number of crazy voters is almost certainly higher since it excludes crazy liberals. > > Since the 27% likely voted for Trump, and since he got about half of the votes, it makes perfect sense that half of his voters are gob-stoppingly traumatic-brain-injury-level crazy. From a July poll: Given the choice between H. Clinton or D. Trump, [13% of Americans prefer a Giant Meteor striking the earth.](http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/06/30/giant-meteor-hitting-earth-polling-well-presidential-election/86572136/) Which I personally interpret as evidence that 87% of Americans are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/44 "2016-12-28T22:27:46Z")
Nobody’s yet mentioned that 17% of Clinton voters believed pizzagate was true and still voted for someone potentially tied to a ring of pedophile satanists? Seriously we are falling down on our snark. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/45 "2016-12-28T22:33:50Z")
That, too, is spectacularly fucked up. But didn’t pizzagate happen after the election? I guess I really have to brush up on my right wing paranoid batshit, I feel I am out of the loony loop. Who’s the guy, Alex Jones? Is he on the radio? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/46 "2016-12-28T22:37:55Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I guess I really have to brush up on my right wing paranoid batshit, I feel I am out of the loony loop. Who’s the guy, Alex Jones? Is he on the radio? He’s on something, alright. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/47 "2016-12-28T22:45:32Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Russian tampering with vote tallies - there is no evidence for it whatsoever. The FBI and CIA both state that there is evidence that the Russian government directed electronic break-ins to the DNC in order to prevent Clinton from being elected President. It should go without saying that the Russian military has a highly competent cyber warfare unit. There is empirical evidence that it is possible to write a computer virus that infects voting machines, propagates between machines by the mere act of configuring them for election day, alters the resulting vote tabulations, and then erases itself. In Pennsylvania, counties which used voting machines broke significantly towards Trump when compared to counties which used paper ballots. Now, in my opinion it is very unlikely that the Russian government tampered with any voting machines used in the election. There are other factors that could explain the Pennsylvania county-level voting. This is all very circumstantial evidence. But it is not the same as _no_ evidence. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/48 "2016-12-28T22:47:16Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > From a July poll: Given the choice between H. Clinton or D. Trump, [13% of Americans prefer a Giant Meteor striking the earth.](http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/06/30/giant-meteor-hitting-earth-polling-well-presidential-election/86572136/) > > Which I personally interpret as evidence that 87% of Americans are stupid. The Giant Meteor already did foresee the disaster coming **and it gave up** … > [@](#): > > [So now the U.S. is like “fuck, we are dumb asses…” Canada’s like “what’s going on, eh?” > Australia is still like “WTF”, Mars is laughing at us and some Huge Meteor is like "Well, Fuck That!. [leaves avoiding crashing on earth].](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs) ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/49 "2016-12-28T23:40:15Z")
It says volumes about the depths of Hillary’s evil that she could run a pedophile ring out of the basement of a building that doesn’t even _have_ a basement. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/50 "2016-12-28T23:44:34Z")
And yet as a liberal who understands that climate change is real, Obama was born in the US and that Pizzagate is nonsense, I’m the one who is told that I live in a bubble. If these ignorant pig fuckers are on the other side of the bubble, I’ll stay in it. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/51 "2016-12-28T23:53:23Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > But didn’t pizzagate happen after the election? It started a few days before. Admittedly they might not have heard which ruins some of the fun. _Standing in the voting booth muttering to themselves_ “Hmmmmm Cheeto Jesus or the pedophile? Some decisions are so hard.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/52 "2016-12-29T01:45:37Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I think you bring up a lot of really good points about protective cognition, but my first reaction reading this OP was, “Well, this shows how unreliable polls are.” Seriously, almost nobody believes that for real. Well, at least one guy believed it enough to take the law into his own hands and show up there with a gun. The kinds of insane fuckwits who buy into this and have radio shows often have millions of viewers. One of them is related to a cabinet member. I really don’t know how you can justify saying “nobody actually believes that” when they are saying, loud and clear, that they actually believe that. A good half of republicans were birthers, for fuck’s sake. You think none of them “believed that for real”? > [@madmonk28](#): > > And yet as a liberal who understands that climate change is real, Obama was born in the US and that Pizzagate is nonsense, I’m the one who is told that I live in a bubble. If these ignorant pig fuckers are on the other side of the bubble, I’ll stay in it. Seriously. Fuck. That. Shit. This whole “liberal bubble” narrative is fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/53 "2016-12-29T02:05:46Z")
Well, let’s examine this bubble notion. Can we agree that to say that someone is in a bubble is to say they have been shielded from (or are in active denial of) certain lines of rational thought, certain facts, certain fields of generally-accepted knowledge? If so: 1. What omissions would be typical of a “liberal bubble”, i.e. what concepts are they unaware of or in denial of ? - racial distinctions exist and are measurable? - socialism is a failed ideology? - illegal immigrants are a net drain on American society? 1. What omissions would be typical of a “conservative bubble”, i.e. what concepts are they unaware of or in denial of? - human pollution is having a negative and significant effect on Earth’s atmosphere/environment? - deregulation invites short-term gain at the cost of long-term failure? - some services are best managed by a government, as opposed to the private sector? I’m open to suggestions, of course, the gist being that which set of ignored concepts is overall more destructive to one’s personal self-interests as well as those of the nation. If you feel your political opponents are in a bubble, what are the biggest omissions in their worldview and of those, which are most harmful to themselves and the country? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/54 "2016-12-29T02:40:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, let’s examine this bubble notion. Can we agree that to say that someone is in a bubble is to say they have been shielded from (or are in active denial of) certain lines of rational thought, certain facts, certain fields of generally-accepted knowledge? > > If so: > > 1. What omissions would be typical of a “liberal bubble”, i.e. what concepts are they unaware of or in denial of ? > > - racial distinctions exist and are measurable? Race is a social construct. The distinctions are more a product of prejudice and current social status. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > - socialism is a failed ideology? > **[What is the most socialist country in the European Union?](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-socialist-country-in-the-European-Union)** > > Answer (1 of 31): To put things in perspective, it might be just as informative to ask “which North American countries are socialist?” America’s “socialist” programs include education, military, public safety (police, fire, corrections), the... > [@](#): > > Depends on your definition of socialist. If your definition is a planned economy in which everything is owned and administered by the state, then there are none. If your definition includes social democracies and mixed economies with extensive welfare states and some amount of government ownership, then most are. I should say that that idea that nations that called themselves socialist that tried to apply: the command economy, Is the part that has been demonstrated to be a failed idea. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > - illegal immigrants are a net drain on American society? [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/magazine/do-illegal-immigrants-actually-hurt-the-us-economy.html) > [@](#): > > There are many ways to debate immigration, but when it comes to economics, there isn’t much of a debate at all. Nearly all economists, of all political persuasions, agree that immigrants — those here legally or not — benefit the overall economy. “That is not controversial,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute, told me. Shierholz also said that “there is a consensus that, on average, the incomes of families in this country are increased by a small, but clearly positive amount, because of immigration.” > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > 1. What omissions would be typical of a “conservative bubble”, i.e. what concepts are they unaware of or in denial of? > > - human pollution is having a negative and significant effect on Earth’s atmosphere/environment? > - deregulation invites short-term gain at the cost of long-term failure? > - some services are best managed by a government, as opposed to the private sector? > > I’m open to suggestions, of course, the gist being that which set of ignored concepts is overall more destructive to one’s personal self-interests as well as those of the nation. If you feel your political opponents are in a bubble, what are the biggest omissions in their worldview and of those, which are most harmful to themselves and the country? Well, one of the worst is that the choice for the new attorney points to a renewed war against drugs, and no, that many states are relaxing their drug laws does not mean much if you have leaders at the federal level that also live in a bubble that continues to deny the **very** harmful effects of the stupid war on drugs. [QUOTE] The war against drugs has been a terrible disaster for everybody involved. Why? And can we do something differently? [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > With a budget of around $30 billion, the US Drug Enforcement Agency has an efficiency rate of less than 1% when it comes to stopping the flow of drugs into the US and inside the US. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/55 "2016-12-29T04:47:07Z")
It is a testing of faith for an orthodox Cecilian. Why fight ignorance if facts don’t do any good? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/56 "2016-12-29T04:56:56Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > …If you don’t think the struggling working “class” is a class that sees itself as losing the game - because others of “higher class” have “won” or cheated them or gotten things their way or whatever, and that the vote last November wasn’t a class revolt, then you’re overdue for your IQ shots this month… So, then Trump is the revolutionary cadre leading the proletariat in class struggle? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/57 "2016-12-29T05:53:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It is a testing of faith for an orthodox Cecilian. Why fight ignorance if facts don’t do any good? We fight because we must fight. Alas. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/58 "2016-12-29T06:32:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, then Trump is the revolutionary cadre leading the proletariat in class struggle? Well, you know, Regular Hitler (not Orange Hitler) _did_ once say “If today I stand here as a revolutionary, it is as a revolutionary against the revolution.” ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/59 "2016-12-29T06:33:56Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > The FBI and CIA both state that there is evidence that the Russian government directed electronic break-ins to the DNC in order to prevent Clinton from being elected President. It should go without saying that the Russian military has a highly competent cyber warfare unit. > > There is empirical evidence that it is possible to write a computer virus that infects voting machines, propagates between machines by the mere act of configuring them for election day, alters the resulting vote tabulations, and then erases itself. > > In Pennsylvania, counties which used voting machines broke significantly towards Trump when compared to counties which used paper ballots. > > Now, in my opinion it is very unlikely that the Russian government tampered with any voting machines used in the election. There are other factors that could explain the Pennsylvania county-level voting. This is all very circumstantial evidence. > > But it is not the same as _no_ evidence. I’m going to call for a cite about this virus. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777/60 "2016-12-29T06:36:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The question in the poll didn’t ask about basements or pizza parlors. Yes, it did. It asked about Pizzagate, which is about those things. The “pizza” part is explicitly mentioned in the survey. You aren’t doing any favors to Trump supporters by acting like both scenarios are equally unlikely. Russia interfering in our elections is a real life thing that happened. Believing they altered voting totals is not all that far-fetched, even if, to someone who knows more about how voting works, we know it’s rather unlikely. An underground pedophile ring with multiple victims and involves all the big wigs of the Democratic Party? And that hasn’t even made the real news? I mean, the whole concept was obviously fake from the get go. You do in fact have to be rather stupid to think that this is even possibly true. You new conservatives need to get through your heads that “liberal message board” doesn’t mean “idiot message board.” You’re not going to refute jack with a few lines or with a _tu quoque_ fallacy. Pay attention to your betters–the conservatives who have been here a while and held their own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/half-of-trumps-voters-believe-in-pizzagate/775777.md?page=4)