# Halifax? Toronto? Calgary? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 3, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912 "2006-11-03T00:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/101 "2006-11-06T08:41:07Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] Of course, Tokyo only has 23 million people, but it also has dozens and dozens of regional rail lines and _15 subway lines_. I think **Spoons** and I would agree that there’s a lesson there for Calgary and Edmonton. [/QUOTE] I would agree with you, **Sunspace**. Not just Tokyo, but look at Chicago: local Els and subways, along with the regional Metra system (very similar to the GO system that you know). Look at London–how many Underground lines are there now? Look at New York, with its subways, buses, and commuter trains, in spite of the local geography that makes travel difficult. Or Transperth, in Perth, Australia–because like Calgary, Perth is a city of about a million people. But frequent buses in the suburbs feed four train lines, which in turn feed the city. IIRC, Perth City station has about ten or twelve platforms to handle all the trains. (By contrast, Calgary’s central “station” is a series of open-air platforms at various cross streets along Seventh Avenue; meaning a Somerset train, for example, can’t go until the Whitehorn train gets out of the way.) But again, growth of the city way out in the Perth suburbs like Currambine and Armadale would not have been possible without the frequent and reliable transit system access to them. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/102 "2006-11-06T15:10:26Z")
My husband has a theory that getting people out of their cars is not a priority in Calgary in our oil-and-gas based economy, and you’ve just added more fuel to his fire, **Spoons**. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/103 "2006-11-06T15:56:10Z")
What I would love to see, over and above a train to Edmonton, is a train out to Canmore or Banff. It seems like such a natural thing to do as far as getting tourists out there. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/104 "2006-11-06T17:36:09Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] My husband has a theory that getting people out of their cars is not a priority in Calgary in our oil-and-gas based economy, and you’ve just added more fuel to his fire, **Spoons**. [/QUOTE] We’re going to have to meet up someday so **Jimbo** and I can discuss this in person. Where shall we drive to? 🙂 Seriously, I agree, getting people out of their cars does not seem to be a priority in Calgary. Whether that’s because of the oil and gas economy (let’s face it, we don’t have significantly lower gasoline prices than the rest of Canada, meaning there’s little incentive to consume recklessly, so I wonder about it as a factor), or for another reason, I don’t know. But at any rate, maybe that’s a good thing, if it checks the city’s growth and prevents it from becoming another southern Ontario Golden Horseshoe. I don’t miss those hour-plus commutes along the Evil Death Highway of Doom or on the Death Valley Parkway in the GTA. I like that even when the Deerfoot is slow, it moves better than similar GTA roads. And I like that in spite of what many seen as “massive growth,” I can still be out in farmland within a reasonable time of leaving my house in Calgary. Speaking for myself only, I’d like to see better public transit, both within and without Calgary. I’d like to see Calgary Transit improve services; I’d like to see a train between Edmonton and Calgary, and between Calgary and Banff/Lake Louise (as **Raygun** suggests). But at the same time, I’m well aware of the potential for growth that improved roads and transit can bring, and I’m unsure if I really want to see a similar kind of growth in Calgary. But of course, what I want really doesn’t matter. We’ll have to see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/105 "2006-11-06T18:16:55Z")
[QUOTE=Raygun99] What I would love to see, over and above a train to Edmonton, is a train out to Canmore or Banff. It seems like such a natural thing to do as far as getting tourists out there. [/QUOTE] There used to be one. I took it a few times out to Lake Louise a billion years ago when I was a teenager living out there. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/106 "2006-11-06T20:39:49Z")
[QUOTE=Raygun99] What I would love to see, over and above a train to Edmonton, is a train out to Canmore or Banff. It seems like such a natural thing to do as far as getting tourists out there. [/QUOTE] Another similarity to Denver. I-70 into the mountains is so horribly crowded from Friday through Sunday, that there is much talk of creating a rail line with buses feeding to the ski areas. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/107 "2006-11-06T21:57:16Z")
A rail line out to Canmore/Banff sounds like a natural to me, too. Go out, ski, hike, whatever, have a few drinks, and hop on the train and doze back to Calgary. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/108 "2006-11-06T22:00:07Z")
Dang it, too quick on the draw - **Spoons** , we’ll take you up on that someday. Jim and I both have lots of conspiracy theories; we’ll have to go out for wings at Brewsters some night and swap 'em. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/109 "2006-11-06T23:16:29Z")
I’m coming in pretty late to this thing, but just really to throw something out of left field: [Nanaimo](http://www.nanaimo.ca/). Yes, I know that it used to be considered Victoria’s hapless, rube cousin, but things there have changed greatly in the last few years. The housing market is nowhere near as inflated as Victoria or Vancouver, and the downtown core is finally being revived. You have mountains nearby (including some good-to-great skiing); Vancouver is just a short ferry ride away, for when you need the Big City culture. Victoria (which is hands-down the nicest place to live in Canada–I grew up on the Prairies–) is only an hour and a bit down the [Malahat](http://xentac.net/~jchu/albums/riding/aan.sized.jpg). You have the west coast climate (Nanaimo is still in the sub-mediterranean zone, and is much drier than Vancouver). And you’re on [Vancouver Island](http://burnabylake.com/blog/uploaded_images/Nanaimo_1_2006-708854.jpg), fer cryin’ out loud! …you do know how to drive a bathtub, right? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/110 "2006-11-06T23:28:46Z")
[QUOTE=Rodd Hill] I’m coming in pretty late to this thing, but just really to throw something out of left field: [/QUOTE] No, no, feel free. The more the merrier. Nanaimo looks appealing. Does it snow in the winter? ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/111 "2006-11-07T00:03:23Z")
Not a lot; more than Victoria (but we have gone entire winters with almost none at all, or a very light dusting). [Nanaimo weather stats](http://theweathernetwork.com/weather/stats/pages/C02094.htm?CABC0195) Nanaimo _does_ get about 25% more precip than we do, down here at the tip of the Island, I note. Average house prices there are a good $100-150K less than Vancouver. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/112 "2006-11-07T02:17:18Z")
And those bars - ooh, baby! 😃 I’m starting to think _I_ want to move to Nanaimo. Warm winters, you say? Sub-Mediterranean climate? Not as expensive as Vancouver? Very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/113 "2006-11-07T02:25:44Z")
[QUOTE=Spoons] We’re going to have to meet up someday so **Jimbo** and I can discuss this in person. Where shall we drive to? 🙂 Seriously, I agree, getting people out of their cars does not seem to be a priority in Calgary. Whether that’s because of the oil and gas economy (let’s face it, we don’t have significantly lower gasoline prices than the rest of Canada, meaning there’s little incentive to consume recklessly, so I wonder about it as a factor), or for another reason, I don’t know. [/QUOTE] NO city wants to get people out of their cars. It’s not on Toronto’s priority list to have people use less gasoline, so why should Calgary have such a priority? Nothing is more powerful than the North American’s love of his or her automobile, and cities enter into mass transit projects only in two circumstances; 1. If the volume of traffic is so bad it actually begins to harm business (which is not true in Calgary’s case) or 2. If a higher level of government gives the city a big bag of money to build public transit. Calgary’s traffic just isn’t nearly bad enough to start sufficient outcry for mass transit. The traffic there isn’t even bad by the standards of cities that size. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/114 "2006-11-07T03:01:19Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] Dang it, too quick on the draw - **Spoons** , we’ll take you up on that someday. Jim and I both have lots of conspiracy theories; we’ll have to go out for wings at Brewsters some night and swap 'em. 😃 [/QUOTE] Sounds good! My wife and I often head for Brewster’s; I especially like their in-house beers. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/115 "2006-11-07T15:09:26Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] \ Calgary’s traffic just isn’t nearly bad enough to start sufficient outcry for mass transit. The traffic there isn’t even bad by the standards of cities that size. [/QUOTE] Ah, a chance to use one of my favourite sayings; just because it isn’t as bad, doesn’t mean it’s good. Name the night, **Spoons**. Jim loves beer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/116 "2006-11-07T17:39:15Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] Name the night, **Spoons**. Jim loves beer. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Let’s plan for around Christmas. I know it’s a ways away, but my wife’s schedule is quite busy up until then, and I spend most of my time lately in Edmonton. By Christmas, things will have settled down and I’ll be back in Calgary for more than a couple of days at a stretch. Besides, it’ll give me a few more trips up and down Highway 2, bemoaning the lack of a train. 😃 But yes, if Christmas is OK with you, we will do it then. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/117 "2006-11-07T17:55:03Z")
[QUOTE=Spoons] Let’s plan for around Christmas. I know it’s a ways away, but my wife’s schedule is quite busy up until then, and I spend most of my time lately in Edmonton. By Christmas, things will have settled down and I’ll be back in Calgary for more than a couple of days at a stretch. Besides, it’ll give me a few more trips up and down Highway 2, bemoaning the lack of a train. 😃 But yes, if Christmas is OK with you, we will do it then. [/QUOTE] With enough warning (and money, and planning around other events, especially family), I might be able to make it out there! 🙂 TAKE 7 is taking place in Montreal much later, not Calgary in May, so I don’t have that excuse to go visit you guys, so I need to find another one. Maybe I can roll this in with my visit to my sister in February. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/118 "2006-11-07T20:51:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] Of course, Tokyo only has 23 million people [/QUOTE] Are you sure? I’ve seen numbers, for metro Tokyo granted, that say it is between 35-45 million. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/119 "2006-11-07T21:50:57Z")
[QUOTE=adam yax] Are you sure? I’ve seen numbers, for metro Tokyo granted, that say it is between 35-45 million. [/QUOTE] Wikipedia says [around 12 million](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo) for the city (the prefecture-level entity that contains various municipalities), and the [Greater Tokyo Area](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Tokyo_Area) has over 35 million (!). Interestingly, the Tokyo article goes on to say: > [@](#): > > Tokyo, like Osaka has been designed since about the turn of the century (1900) to be rail-centric, that is centered around major train stations in a high density fashion, so suburban railways were built relatively cheaply at street level. This differs from other world cities such as Los Angeles that are low density automobile centric, and though expressways have been built, the basic design hasn’t changed to this day. . Maybe decent transit has be be built in to the basic pattern of the city. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912/120 "2006-11-07T23:31:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] \Maybe decent transit has be be built in to the basic pattern of the city. [/QUOTE] That would not surprise me. Calgary is having a really hard time trying to retro-fit transit and roads. Closer to Christmas sounds fine, **Spoons**. Dope the halls with beer and holly…😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halifax-toronto-calgary/378912.md?page=5)