# Hall County Georgia trying to steal widow's land **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607 "2004-12-13T14:51:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/121 "2004-12-14T18:56:19Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Well, because I don’t know anything about how to price real estate in general, much less large tracts of land for commercial development, I don’t think I’m qualified to come up with a “just” price for that land. I think a system that allows someone without that knowledge to determine what is and isn’t a just price to be unjust. I don’t know either. There are people who know more about real estate than me who can figure it out. I would just dispute that “just compensation” has to be the same thing as “highest offer.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/122 "2004-12-14T19:44:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m not deciding, her county is. That is their prerogative. Under the 5th amendment they only have to pay her just compensation. They are. Case closed. No rights have been violated. There is no such thing as a protected right to sell land to developers. It doesn’t exist. But there is a right to receive the fair market value of the land. Fair market value is the maximum value a willing buyer would pay a willing seller. Walmart is a willing buyer. She is a willing seller. The fair market value of the land is $8 million. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/123 "2004-12-14T19:53:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Walmart is a willing buyer. She is a willing seller. The fair market value of the land is $8 million. Point of order, **Bricker** , Wal-Mart is not buying her land. A developer who wants to build a retirement community is. > [@Diogenes](#): > > Which is just as it should be. God bless America. That is the most frightening thing you’ve said yet. You really want the gov’t to control every aspect of our lives, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/124 "2004-12-14T19:59:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Walmart is a willing buyer. She is a willing seller. The fair market value of the land is $8 million. Not to imply that Wal\*Mart has anything to do with either the widow or the developer who’s offering her $8M for her land. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/125 "2004-12-14T20:31:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But there is a right to receive the fair market value of the land. Fair market value is the maximum value a willing buyer would pay a willing seller. > > Walmart is a willing buyer. She is a willing seller. The fair market value of the land is $8 million. She has a right to “just compensation,” not “market value.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/126 "2004-12-14T20:35:25Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > That is the most frightening thing you’ve said yet. You really want the gov’t to control every aspect of our lives, don’t you? Of course not. I’m just grateful that the constutution allows communities to keep greedy old ladies from fucking them up the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/127 "2004-12-14T20:37:21Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The problem with Cuba and the former Soviet Union is their political systems, not their economic sytems. Socialism is not the opposite of democracy. I’d argue that both their political systems and economic systems are problematic, but I see your point. It is not my argument that socialism is the opposite of democracy, rather that socialism is the opposite of capitalism. I posit that capitalism is better based on (among other things) the tremendous wealth of the United States, as well as those who travel to the country every year in hopes of economic opportunity and prosperity. On the flipside, I don’t know of anyone who is struggling economically and decides, “I think I’ll go to Cuba!” > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > You can’t compare the progressive democracies of Europe (which work very well) to the totalitarian systems of the old Communist Bloc. They have nothing to do with each other. They both practice socialism to various degrees. My belief is that the U.S.S.R. has failed, and Cuba is currently failing. Though the European socialist countries are currently working (I would debate on how well), it is only a matter of time before they fail as well. I believe this to be true because I believe socialism is a flawed concept. However, this bears little resemblance to the current thread discussion. My opinion on that stands: her land is hers to do with what she wills. Mama Gubmint or her neighbors should have no say in how much it sells for, who buys it, or what is done with it, unless they fork over the appropriate amount of cash. And, no, they don’t get to decide what the appropriate amount is. Just compensation = fair market value, baby. Capitalism at its best! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/128 "2004-12-14T20:41:10Z")
Capitalism is an amoral system and a failure to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/129 "2004-12-14T20:44:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Capitalism is an amoral system and a failure to boot. Is there any particulary moral system? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/130 "2004-12-14T20:54:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Capitalism is an amoral system and a failure to boot. I give up. There is absolutely no reasoning with you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/131 "2004-12-14T21:02:45Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > Is there any particulary moral system? I think so, yes. I would point to the Netherlands as an example. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/132 "2004-12-14T21:20:27Z")
> [@](#): > > I would point to the Netherlands as an example. The same Netherlands that allows the murder of terminally ill adults and unwanted babies (to be fair, the US allows the latter as well), and is currently debating whether to allow the muder of slightly older babies also? I would agree that capitalism is amoral – it is neither good nor evil, just like gravity is neither good nor evil. Socialism, though, is inherently evil, in that it consists of some individuals claiming to represent the “will of the people” and using that as a justification to steal from those who have to give to those who want. Socialism is founded on thievery motivated by envy. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/133 "2004-12-14T21:22:16Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Because you[sup]1[/sup] either wouldn’t donate, or you wouldn’t donate nearly enough. So we’ve all agreed to make you donate. > > [sup]1[/sup]General you; the average citizen; not necessarily “you, **Ivylass** ” And that’s the difference between liberals and conservatives. Conservatives believe in the inherent goodness in people, and want to be compassionate with their own money. Liberals believe in the inherent evil in people, and want to be compassionate with other people’s money. Such a vast chasm…I despair we can ever breach it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/134 "2004-12-14T21:29:54Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > The same Netherlands that allows the murder of terminally ill adults and unwanted babies (to be fair, the US allows the latter as well), and is currently debating whether to allow the muder of slightly older babies also? > > I would agree that capitalism is amoral – it is neither good nor evil, just like gravity is neither good nor evil. Socialism, though, is inherently evil, in that it consists of some individuals claiming to represent the “will of the people” and using that as a justification to steal from those who have to give to those who want. Socialism is founded on thievery motivated by envy. The Netherlands allows no such thing. You’ve got your facts all twisted. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/135 "2004-12-14T21:32:45Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > And that’s the difference between liberals and conservatives. > > Conservatives believe in the inherent goodness in people, and want to be compassionate with their own money. > > Liberals believe in the inherent evil in people, and want to be compassionate with other people’s money. > > Such a vast chasm…I despair we can ever breach it. ☹ Yes, it’s just that simple, isn’t it? Are you a brain surgeon by any chance? ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/136 "2004-12-14T21:36:21Z")
> [@](#): > > The Netherlands allows no such thing. You’ve got your facts all twisted. Really? Abortions aren’t allowed in the Netherlands? Physician-assisted suicide is not allowed? Euthanasia of terminally ill neonates isn’t being debated there? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/137 "2004-12-14T21:36:58Z")
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” - Winston Churchill “Socialism is the same as Communism, only better English” - George Bernard Shaw “Socialism is workable only in heaven where it isn’t needed, and in hell where they’ve got it” - Cecil Palmer “Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it” - Thomas Sowell ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/138 "2004-12-14T21:41:30Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > [Link](http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/horizon/1204/13hall.html) > > In a nutshell, Mrs. Brazell has a signed contract to sell 311 acres of land to a developer. > > The country wants her to sell 323 acres to them for about two million dollars less. They want it for a park, despite the fact that the Parks department has said the land is not suitable for what the county wants to do with it. Hall County is attempting to complete the sale before the lame duck commissioners leave office by using eminent domain. > > Oh, why does the county want 323 acres and the developer only wants 311? > > The county wants the 12 acres that her home sits on. Let’s see: Developer-$2,000,000=County Developer=$8,000,000 County=$6,000,000 Sheesh!! Reminds me a woman who testified at a board meeting about lease to fee conversion. She complained she lived on a fixed income and she couldn’t see how she could afford buying the land under her condo. She felt she was due a price break. It was later found out that her fixed income was in excess of $200,000. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/139 "2004-12-14T21:49:58Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > Really? Abortions aren’t allowed in the Netherlands? Physician-assisted suicide is not allowed? Euthanasia of terminally ill neonates isn’t being debated there? What do those things have to do with your accusations of “murder?” ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607/140 "2004-12-14T21:56:09Z")
> [@](#): > > What do those things have to do with your accusations of “murder?” Murder - the unjustified or unlawful killing of one human by another. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hall-county-georgia-trying-to-steal-widows-land/279607.md?page=8)