# Halle Barry: Rein in in **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2002, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018 "2002-03-25T16:10:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/81 "2002-03-25T22:23:03Z")
It wasn’t necessarily the eyes…that top was quite ill fitting, and though I am an occassional ogler of female breasteses, it made her look like she needed a bi more support and God forbid nipple coverage…she had some unattractive looking nipplage. BBJ ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/82 "2002-03-25T22:29:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > \*\* I find public gushing disgusting, especially from a talented, trained professional at the top of his/her field. Whether or not the person “deserved” to babble and drool or not is irrelevant. > > I prefer to act like a slack-jawed moron in private, \*\* Oh yeah, that’s an accurate description. :rolleyes: By the way, actors are talented, trained, professional EMOTERS, so it’s not all that strange that they would EMOTE. ---
**Author:** ![tighthead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@tighthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tighthead)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/83 "2002-03-25T22:47:09Z")
Well, I agree with **jarbabyj** , I think the speech was over the top. But that might just be because I wanted to see our Nicole and “our” Russell win. JB ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/84 "2002-03-25T22:55:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BottledBlondJeanie \* > \*\*It wasn’t necessarily the eyes…that top was quite ill fitting, and though I am an occassional ogler of female breasteses, it made her look like she needed a bi more support and God forbid nipple coverage…she had some unattractive looking nipplage. > \*\* Damn tootin’. If she insisted on wearing that thing, the least she could have done was stand up straight. Her posture made it look that much worse. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/85 "2002-03-25T22:56:06Z")
**Polycarp** : > [@](#): > > presents **Andros** with the **Wildest Bill** Memorial Award for Lifetime Achievement in Over-the-Top Humorous Comments Harrrrr_umph_. 😛 (Re Gynneth: He nipples weren’t showing. She still looked like hell.) ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/86 "2002-03-25T23:05:15Z")
Maybe I’m a child of my era, but I guess I thought the whole emphasis on race made me a bit uncomfortable. I mean, I am completely opposed to racism, and when it keeps being brought up today in Hollywood – not the Bible Belt, not Georgia, in Hollywood – I just don’t get it. Am I the only person who really didn’t think about Halle Berry’s race except when watching Monster’s Ball and the Oscars? Am I the only person who thought “wow, I enjoyed her performance, I’m glad this actress won” and not “…this black actress won”? I heartily enjoyed Whoopi’s performance but I rarely think of her as a “black actress” or a “black comedian”. To me, she’s just funny, and unless an actor makes it the focus of their work (like Spike Lee) I don’t really think about it. Isn’t that what we’re aiming for? Can’t we examine race issues through excellent films like Monster’s Ball and not through over-hyping a milestone? All in all though, I’m not going to jump on Ms. Berry. She was obviously very overcome by the situation and that’s not the same thing as having a carefully thought-out speech. I guess I felt uncomfortable to be put into the “them” category again – I couldn’t share the moment because I’m not in the same racial category and she made it an issue, though she was who I was personally rooting for. I also am rather confused at this comment: “And all the other black actresses of the day who were never allowed to kiss the hero, who never got to play Cleopatra or Juliet, who were stuck playing the loyal maid or the simple-minded ‘darky.’” What does prejudice have to do with black women not getting to play Juliet? Juliet is Italian! I’d like to play Hamlet but I’m not male, and I’m sure there are white actors who would enjoy playing Othello, but c’est la vie. If you’re doing a traditional performance in America (and with all the racially-charged dialogue that has been going on for the last 50 years), having a black Juliet is making a statement – not necessarily one that the director wanted. If you feel like playing with the script and with racial or gender roles, that’s different, but that sort of Shakespearean interpretation seems more common today than in the age where blacks could only play ‘the simple-minded “darky”’. Acting is not a field where I think that picking people because of race – or gender, appearance, ethnicity, native language, and so on – is inappropriate. (There may be a day when people do not blink if you cast a white Othello, an black Desdemona and an Asian Iago, but today is not it.) Am I glad that black folks are branching out? Of course! I think Denzel Washington has done some very fine work (especially Philadelphia), as I said above I enjoyed Halle Berry’s performace, and there are many wonderful actors that have gotten a chance to work in a great many roles. Yet, to continue to cry racism (or to bring up race constantly) isn’t really helping in my view. I personally would like to get away from such strong self-identification with a racial group. That sounds fine when applied to white folks but not for others – is it that hard to believe that “black pride” might be just as destructive for racial integration as “white pride”? Sorry, this turned into a sermon. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Fiat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lux\_Fiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Fiat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/87 "2002-03-25T23:34:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fluiddruid \* > I’m sure there are white actors who would enjoy playing Othello You mean like Orson Welles? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![celestina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@celestina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celestina)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/88 "2002-03-25T23:35:23Z")
[celestina scratching her head] I’m confoosed. What’s all this to do over Halle Berry’s speech? Granted I couldn’t give it my full attention as I was dealing with a very inebriated guest :rolleyes: [sigh], but come on, now, folks. Y’all know it simply ain’t the Oscars if folks don’t get up and make speeches that are miles too long thanking everyone and everything plus the kitchen sink. I am _very_ happy for Berry’s historical achievement, and I was feelin’ her when she started talking about how difficult it’s been for her and for black actresses in general to get a fair shake at decent roles. What she said in that speech ain’t nothin’ new to me, and actually I believe she’s voiced similar concerns in several interviews that she’s done throughout her acting career. I think that what would have been disgraceful and more appropriate for a Pit thread would have been if she’d gotten up there and said: “It’s about time I got my due. I’m the Queen of the World, and all of you lowly peons with inferior acting talent to mine bow down and worship me.” Now _that_ would have been offensive and waaaay over the top. But y’all got every right to your own opinions about what’s offensive and what’s not. As for what Berry actually did say, I started to tune out and wish she’d shut the hell up and get off the stage when she thanked her lawyer for the second time, but I thought it was _very_ appropriate that she mentioned the wonderful black actresses who paved the way for her to get where she is now, and I would have been offended if she hadn’t paid them tribute. [shrug] I’ve not seen “Monster’s Ball,” but with all this fanfare and debatin’ over Berry’s acceptance speech 😕–y’all are talking about why black folks got to make such a big political deal out of stuff, but I’d bet it wouldn’t have mattered if she’d gotten up there and said “thank you” and stepped down, somebody would have been pissed and started a Pit thread talking about how ungrateful she is for the honor and how she should have thanked more people or said more–I’m sure Berry’s role in the actual film is going to be quite interesting to see. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/89 "2002-03-25T23:38:50Z")
**fluid** you aren’t suggesting, are you, that \*\*only \*\* an Italian actress should play Juliet? Then I guess Oliva Hussey shouldn’t have, and certainly, when they remade it recently and took it into modern times, Clair Danes was the logical choice, her bein’ Italian and all. My point that I’d made earlier is that in **most** cases, the racial background of the part really isn’t integral to the role. (tho’ oddly enough I suspect Halle’s in Monster Ball it **was** important that the actress was black, since the undertones of racism was an important plot point). It’s very easy for folks to **not** see the racial divide. But, like I mentioned before, Denzel’s part in Pelican Brief, there was all sorts of publicity about the fact they’d chosen a black actor to portray this part. You’ll note, of course, that many of the other roles in the film went to white actors, w/o it being necessary to the plot at all (why would the bad guys chasing her have to be white? why were all the lawyers white? most of the law school students? the reporters? the white house staff except, of course for the one man who swept up the hallway and talked to Denzel’s character? etc. etc. etc.). ---
**Author:** ![shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/90 "2002-03-25T23:40:33Z")
I disagree with **jarbabyj** , but that’s as far as I’ll go with that. It is a big deal. I can see why she isn’t on the same level as Jackie Robinson, but I will, however, compare her to the likes of Toni Morrison, the first black woman to receive the Nobel Prize in Literature. Several people seem to be insinuating that it’s a FLUKE that it’s taken this long for a black woman to win, but it was only in 1993 that we crossed that border with Ms. Morrison, and even then people claimed she only won because of her color!! Toni Fucking Morrison!! As if she was a talentless hack!! Yes, maybe Halle is a flake, but so what? She turned in a phenomenal performance. Period. I also disagree with the sentiment that this only matters in Hollywood. As a teacher of English literature, I often have my kids write screenplays of texts we’ve read. We always have the hardest time coming up with black actresses to fit in roles. We wind up with the same few: Esther Rolle, Cicely Tyson, Phylisha Rashad, Whoopi Goldberg, and Queen Latifah. And poor Esther’s dead. It’s unacceptable that young black girls and boys have so few visual examples of people in Hollywood with whom to identify racially. And lastly, let’s take a great big look at Tiger Woods. Sure, he’s not strictly African-American, but don’t tell a young black boy that. In the last five years, I have had more 9th grade black boys who play golf than I can shake a stick at, and I’m fairly certain it’s not because they grew up following Jack Nicklaus. It matters. And by God, she deserves to be a bit flustered. ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Fiat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lux\_Fiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Fiat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/91 "2002-03-25T23:53:48Z")
Also, regarding Gwyneth, I must have missed altogether or not paid attention to the nasty top of which you guys speak. So I’ll concede that I may not have gotten the whole “looks like hell” effect, and recant (grudgingly) my characterization of all of you as horrible turds. Not that I wouldn’t jump up and down and clap my hands and giggle if Gwyneth Paltrow, a week from her last shower and wearing a burlap sack cinched at the waist with packaging twine, so much as smiled at me, mind you… ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/92 "2002-03-25T23:58:32Z")
> [@](#): > > No way she can top Cuba Gooding Jr’s shout-outs, or Jack Palance’s push-ups. You missed Roberto Benigni’s (_Life is Beautiful_) acceptance speech, didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![TigoleBitties](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cab0a1/32.png) [@TigoleBitties](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TigoleBitties)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/93 "2002-03-26T00:04:07Z")
All I gotta say is Have you guys watched the movie she was nominated for? She deserved it AS AN ACTRESS! I dont give a shit if she was blue…it was a hell of a performance and yes…I saw all the others noms movies too. Now grow up ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/94 "2002-03-26T00:42:27Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by shrew \* > \*\* > I also disagree with the sentiment that this only matters in Hollywood. As a teacher of English literature, I often have my kids write screenplays of texts we’ve read. We always have the hardest time coming up with black actresses to fit in roles. We wind up with the same few: Esther Rolle, Cicely Tyson, Phylisha Rashad, Whoopi Goldberg, and Queen Latifah. And poor Esther’s dead. It’s unacceptable that young black girls and boys have so few visual examples of people in Hollywood with whom to identify racially._\* I’m not sure what it means that your list is so small, but just off the top of my head, here are a few more you can add… Debbie Allen Jada Pinkett-Smith Robin Givens Angela Bassett Debbi Morgan Lynn Whitfield Lela Rochon Lisa Nicole Carson Nia Long Nichelle Nichols S. Epatha Merkerson Vivica A. Fox Pam Grier Sharon Leal Lorraine Toussaint And of course, don’t forget Halle Berry 🙂 > [@](#): > > _andros_: (Re Gynneth: He nipples weren’t showing. She still looked like hell.) What’s with all the people declaring her nipples weren’t showing, as if it were a statement of fact? YOU may not have been able to see her nipples, but both **Heloise** and I certainly could, as have all those others who have _said so_. What - you think we’re just making it up? Or delusional? Perhaps a visit to your ophthalmologist is in order. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/95 "2002-03-26T00:44:52Z")
It was a great night for African American actors: Halle Berry, Denzel Washington and Sidney Poitier. I’m really happy. And I’ll kindly thank somel of you to stop picking on some of the actresses for thanking their lawyers in their acceptance speeches. We have no idea why the thanks was deemed approrpriate by the speech maker, but we lawyers are there for our clients 24/7, no matter how thick it gets. It was nice to hear it appreciated in public. So there. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/96 "2002-03-26T01:03:24Z")
**Shayna** , take a breath. Let it out slowly. You’re jumping my shit over _an actress’ nipples._ Fuck, I believe you, ok? I hadn’t even read _your_ post, ok? So don’t go thinking I’m out to get you or something. Now, then. Can anyone point me to a link? I know _somewhere_ there’s a shot of Ms. Paltrow that shows her nips. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/97 "2002-03-26T01:05:45Z")
> [@](#): > > All I gotta say is > > Have you guys watched the movie she was nominated for? > She deserved it AS AN ACTRESS! I dont give a shit if she was blue…it was a hell of a performance > and yes…I saw all the others noms movies too. > Now grow up All I gotta say is Have you read this thread? Care to point out where anyone suggested she doesn’t deserve the Oscar? Thought not. Grow up your own damn self. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/98 "2002-03-26T01:19:14Z")
Not to mention, Cleopatra was most certainly NOT black. She was Macedonian Greek and possibly of Semitic origin, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/99 "2002-03-26T01:31:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\ ***Shayna** , take a breath. Let it out slowly. > > You’re jumping my shit over _an actress’ nipples._ > > Fuck, I believe you, ok? I hadn’t even read _your_ post, ok? So don’t go thinking I’m out to get you or something. > Now, then. Can anyone point me to a link? I know _somewhere_ there’s a shot of Ms. Paltrow that shows her nips. \*\* **andros** , get over yourself - I don’t need to take a breath, but maybe you should. Gwynnie’s nips are visible [here](http://fashion.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2002/03/24/arts/25osca.slideshow%5F14.html). ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018/100 "2002-03-26T01:40:26Z")
It seems to me the only barrier she broke was the one keeping her from making 20 million a flick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/halle-barry-rein-in-in/100018.md?page=6)