# Hallucinogen from rye bread? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 8, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767 "2003-02-08T21:41:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cw)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/1 "2003-02-08T21:41:28Z")
Those biscuit and cornbread posts made me think of this for some reason. When I was in high school, I heard and read about people in prison making hallucinogens from rye bread. The process, as I understood at the time, was to take a peice of rye bread, put on some kind of citrus fruit, and let it mold. I remember trying this with rye and orange juice concentrate, but only ended up with moldy bread stomach ache (suprised thats all I got). I suppose this is all based on extracting erogot from the rye? Has anyone else heard of these myths/folklore tales? Is it possible to make a hallucinogen in this manner? ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/2 "2003-02-08T22:16:30Z")
Um, there’s a particularly fungus called ergot that likes to grow on rye but I don’t think ergotism is a kind of hallicinating you WANT to be doing. . . ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/3 "2003-02-08T22:16:52Z")
[Ergot Poisoning](http://members.tripod.com/alam25/printer/inf.htm) > [@](#): > > Ergot is a fungal disease of rye, barley and wheat caused by fungi Cleviceps ergot. The disease appears as a blackish-purple club shaped growth (known as head of ergot) on the tops of grain seeds. It has a rough surface and may be as much as four times as large as the grain kernel it replaces. The ideal condition for ergot contamination is wet and cool spring. > > Ergot body contains a number of alkaloids and amines which can cause health problems in both animals and people. Ergot contaminated food consumption may cause vomiting, diarrhea and even gangrene in serous cases. It also has a poisonous effect on the central nervous system. LSD- a psychoactive drug was first synthesized from ergot compounds. > > Ergot was a widespread contamination of cereal grains in Europe during middle ages. Heat cannot break down psychoactive components of ergot; therefore, they exist in breads baked from infected grains. A major outbreak of ergot poisoning occurred in France in early 1950s. In 1951, nearly 135 people had to be hospitalized and 6 died from ergot poisoning in the French town of Pont St. Esprit. They ate bread made from fungus infected rye. The victims had horrible visions of being attacked by tigers and snakes and of turning into beasts. Experiences of this outbreak provide a good insight into what people might have experienced in medieval times. > > Symptoms of ergot poisoning include hallucinations (the 1950’s French victims reported ‘being chased or attacked by horrible beasts’, ‘terror of dark’ and ‘feeling that my body was not mine’) together with burning sensations (commonly known as St. Anthony’s fire ) in the extremities & the scalp. It would appear that the fungus grows on the rye grain, not on rye bread, so you probably can’t make it with pumpernickel. [More info on ergot poisoning](http://www.google.com/search?q=%22ergot+poisoning%22) ---
**Author:** ![cw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cw)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/4 "2003-02-08T22:18:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capybara \* > \*\*Um, there’s a particularly fungus called ergot that likes to grow on rye but I don’t think ergotism is a kind of hallicinating you WANT to be doing. . . \*\* I dont want to do it, I guess I should clarify the main point of my OP. Do prisoners/kids/etc. do this? And how? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/5 "2003-02-08T22:41:51Z")
There’s no way you’re going to get away with this. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/6 "2003-02-09T02:28:42Z")
Exactly. Lysergic acid is extractable from ergot fungus, and its amide and diethylamide are hallucinogens – but I would assume it takes some careful laboratory work to do so. (Taking the discussion further than that would involve the sorts of how-to-make-illegal-drugs discussion that the moderators really frown on.) The diethylamide is, of course, LSD; the amide, a much milder drug, occurs naturally in very small quantities in morning glory seeds (which is why people with more interest in drugs than common sense were ingesting them in quantity back in the 60s). **One cannot “get high” from ergot fungus** (which in any case grows on the rye plant, not on rye bread); **one can only get deathly ill from it**. ---
**Author:** ![3waygeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/e95f7d/32.png) [@3waygeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3waygeek)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/7 "2003-02-09T02:47:01Z")
[More than any sane person would want to know about ergot](http://www.iath.virginia.edu/courses/encr481/Hofmann.doc). **Fear Itself** , I remember hearing that story, too. However, according to the above link, the events in Pont St. Esprit were the result of the seed grain having been treated with a mercury compound. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/8 "2003-02-09T08:43:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Do prisoners/kids/etc. do this? And how? The first question is okay. The second is not. We are not in the business of telling people how to make and isolate poisons. bibliophage moderator GQ ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/9 "2003-02-09T12:51:47Z")
I remember hearing about the witch hunts being correlated with the possibility of the fungus occurring in the periods mentioned - perhaps an excuse??? I bet it is possible to really get off on a shot of gasoline too. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/10 "2003-02-09T12:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\*I remember hearing about the witch hunts being correlated with the possibility of the fungus occurring in the periods mentioned - perhaps an excuse??? \*\* [Interpreting Witchcraft](http://ccbit.cs.umass.edu/parsons/witchcraft.html) > [@](#): > > While the ergot poisoning theory lacks credibility, and does not seem to apply in the Mary Parsons case, the symptoms and illnesses cited in the Parsons record, as well as the mysterious deaths, could lead us to consider that poisoning of some kind (whether intentional or accidental) could have been a contributing factor. Unfortunately, lacking more evidence or detailed medical records, such a theory is difficult to investigate. Nonetheless, issues of the natural environment and climate of Northampton and the human physiology of its residents certainly played a role in how the Mary Parsons case played out. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/11 "2003-02-09T13:12:43Z")
just offering an excuse for some nutty behavior - based on TV (Discovery or The Learning Channel) Was not intended as conclusive evidence - just kind of looking for an excuse for the CS (crazy $h!?) that was going on BITD (back in the day) ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/12 "2003-02-09T13:45:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\*I remember hearing about the witch hunts being correlated with the possibility of the fungus occurring in the periods mentioned - perhaps an excuse??? > > I bet it is possible to really get off on a shot of gasoline too. \*\* In the book _Acceptable Risk_ by Robin Cook this is discussed and reading that book was the first time I had ever heard of such a theory. Makes a hell of a lot of sense that some of the “evil spirits, demon posessions and curses” were accidental poisoning from moldy grain products rather than actual witchcraft. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hallucinogen-from-rye-bread/153767/13 "2003-02-09T14:26:49Z")
Some prescription medicines used to treat Parkinson’s disease, certain hormone imbalances, and other disorders associated with low dopamine levels or insensitivity to dopamine are also ergot derivatives. These drugs work as dopamine agonists, binding to the dopamine receptors in the brain and imitating the effects of dopamine. They’ve been hugely beneficial to many people, including myself. But dopamine is a very important neurotransmitter, and having too much is as dangerous as having too little. Abnormally high dopamine levels are associated with schizophrenia and other serious disorders. What’s my point with all this? The suggestion that, while ergot and its derivatives have their uses, screwing around with anything that affects your dopamine system for fun is a _very bad idea_. It can make you very, very sick, and as **capybara** said, the potential mental effects involved are probably not the sort of “high” you want to go chasing. They’re the sort of “high” that can seriously mangle your mind.