# Ham & Cheese Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017 "2010-05-11T05:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sinisterniik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/51bf81/32.png) [@Sinisterniik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinisterniik)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/1 "2010-05-11T05:58:33Z")
Ok, so I know I’m tempting quite a few jokes, but this is a serious question: Why don’t Christians follow Old Testament rules and laws (like staying Kosher)? Did I miss the part of the Bible where God 86’ed Leviticus? ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/2 "2010-05-11T06:06:16Z")
If I recall my New Testament classes, there is something in…Acts, maybe…where Paul has a dream about a blanket full of formerly forbidden foods and a message to “eat.” I’m not sure if that was _the_ theological reason behind the abandonment of OT dietary restrictions, but it may have contributed to it. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/3 "2010-05-11T06:31:31Z")
> **[Council of Jerusalem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Jerusalem)** > > The Council of Jerusalem or Apostolic Council is a council described in chapter 15 of the Acts of the Apostles, allegedly held in Jerusalem around c. 48–50 AD. > The council decided that Gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep most of the rules prescribed to the Jews by the Mosaic Law, such as Jewish dietary laws and other specific rituals, including the rules concerning circumcision of males. The council did, however, retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing bl... > **[Biblical law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_law_in_Christianity)** > > Biblical law refers to the legal aspects of the Bible, the holy scriptures of Christianity and Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/4 "2010-05-11T07:45:42Z")
> [@statsman1982](#): > > If I recall my New Testament classes, there is something in…Acts, maybe…where Paul has a dream about a blanket full of formerly forbidden foods and a message to “eat.” I’m not sure if that was _the_ theological reason behind the abandonment of OT dietary restrictions, but it may have contributed to it. It was Peter rather than Paul, and it is recorded in [Acts 10](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%2010&version=NIV). ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/5 "2010-05-11T10:11:37Z")
> [@grimpixie](#): > > It was Peter rather than Paul, and it is recorded in [Acts 10](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%2010&version=NIV). Mark 7:18-19, words of Jesus, with an added comment, are also used… 18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Perceive ye not, that whatsoever from without goeth into the man, it cannot defile him; 19 because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said, making all meats clean. (American Standard Version 1901) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/6 "2010-05-11T14:22:27Z")
This was discussed recently at some length. Acts and Galatians are the key areas. [Do the laws of the Old Testament apply to Christians?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=553639) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/7 "2010-05-11T14:23:50Z")
This is a fair question, and one that comes up here every once in a while. See, for example, [Do the laws of the Old Testament apply to Christians?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=553639) or [How come Christians eat pork ?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=497324) (ETA: I see **Tom Tildrum** has scooped me on the link.) Judging by the New Testament (Acts, Paul’s epistles), one of the major controversies in the early Christian church was, essentially, whether you have to be Jewish in order to be Christian. That is, do Christians have to obey all the requirements and restrictions of the Jewish, Mosaic Law? And the answer that was eventually agreed upon was: No, they don’t. See **Sage Rat** ’s links. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/8 "2010-05-11T17:35:23Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Mark 7:18-19, words of Jesus, with an added comment, are also used… > > 18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Perceive ye not, that whatsoever from without goeth into the man, it cannot defile him; > 19 because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said, making all meats clean. > > (American Standard Version 1901) In other words: What goes into your mouth isn’t nearly as important as what comes out of it. or maybe not… ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/9 "2010-05-11T21:09:20Z")
[QUOTE=The Bible] 18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Perceive ye not, that whatsoever from without goeth into the man, it cannot defile him; [/QUOTE] Unless it’s cock. > [@](#): > > 19 because it goeth not into his heart, but into his belly, and goeth out into the draught? This he said, making all meats clean. Except c-, oh wait I just made that joke. ---
**Author:** ![Sinisterniik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/51bf81/32.png) [@Sinisterniik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinisterniik)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/10 "2010-05-12T01:16:12Z")
Thanks for all the responses! ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/11 "2010-05-12T01:20:46Z")
I have a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=562738) in a similar vein right now, if you don’t all mind taking a look-see and giving me your best… ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/12 "2010-05-12T06:11:49Z")
Another take on the OP’s question. I asked this question to a friend of mine who attended a seminary, and his answer, in brief, the Ten Commandments and the Old Testament Law were a Suzerain contract between God and the Israeli, and doesn’t apply to Christians. Much of his argument is based in what the verses/books that the other dopers have already quoted. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/13 "2010-05-12T08:37:33Z")
> [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](#): > > Another take on the OP’s question. > > I asked this question to a friend of mine who attended a seminary, and his answer, in brief, the Ten Commandments and the Old Testament Law were a Suzerain contract between God and the Israeli, and doesn’t apply to Christians. Much of his argument is based in what the verses/books that the other dopers have already quoted. Don’t even Orthodox Jews not require converts to do everything? Or am I misremembering? ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/14 "2010-05-12T14:27:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Don’t even Orthodox Jews not require converts to do everything? Or am I misremembering? Yup, misremembering. From the Orthodox perspective, a convert has the same obligations as any other Jew, although he/she wouldn’t belong to any special groups with extra obligations, most notably the priestly or Levite classes. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/15 "2010-05-12T16:36:57Z")
The strictest answer is that Christians are not neccessarily Jews, although there were Jewish Christians (after a while, they mostly lost their Jewish identity and stopped the dietary restrictions, but that’s neither here nor there). It was decided that converts did not have to obey Jewish food laws. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/16 "2010-05-12T17:28:11Z")
The real question is how the “Christian” side gets to pick and choose - the heck with Kosher, but we’ll pick the most appealing “abominations” that we want to condemn from Leviticus. Oh, and we get to pretend the 10 commandments still apply and we should be able to have state monuments using them… ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/17 "2010-05-12T17:57:34Z")
All very interesting, but how do people who believe in the “absolute inarrancy” of the bible resolve this question? The young earth creationists, for example, who refuse the idea that a biblical “day” might be a good part of a billion years. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/18 "2010-05-12T18:16:03Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The real question is how the “Christian” side gets to pick and choose - the heck with Kosher, but we’ll pick the most appealing “abominations” that we want to condemn from Leviticus. Oh, and we get to pretend the 10 commandments still apply and we should be able to have state monuments using them… Apostolic teaching in The New Testament- Peter & Paul both lift the Kosher restrictions. However, Paul seems to echo the condemnation of same-gender sex (the Levitical passage that condemns it also condemns incest & bestiality, btw- I’m waiting for the argument that those are outmoded restrictions also). ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/19 "2010-05-13T14:31:11Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Don’t even Orthodox Jews not require converts to do everything? Or am I misremembering? Sorry, **BigT** , I’m afraid I have no idea too. Perhaps some other Dopers could help? > [@md2000](#): > > The real question is how the “Christian” side gets to pick and choose - the heck with Kosher, but we’ll pick the most appealing “abominations” that we want to condemn from Leviticus. Oh, and we get to pretend the 10 commandments still apply and we should be able to have state monuments using them… This is one of the beef I have with Christians who use the Old Testament to enforce certain behaviors, even though some of those laws only make sense in historical context. I would just go out on a limb and said that preachers who do that are wrong. As for the homosexuality issue, the one thing that most anti-gay protesters never touched on was that stealing, adultery, popularity cults and other issues were just as hotly condemned too in the various letters to the church. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017/20 "2010-05-13T17:07:18Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > However, Paul seems to echo the condemnation of same-gender sex (the Levitical passage that condemns it also condemns incest & bestiality, btw- I’m waiting for the argument that those are outmoded restrictions also). :rolleyes: The U.S. Constitution counted Black slaves as 3/5 of a human being. Recognizing one part of a work as outdated doesn’t necessitate throwing all parts of it out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ham-cheese-religion/539017.md?page=2)