# Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news, israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 7, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234 "2023-10-07T10:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/183 "2023-10-08T19:14:03Z")
Security forces got to the site of that desert festival and found over 260 dead bodies. Total death count is up to 700 so far. It will be days or weeks before we understand the true magnitude of the atrocities Hamas has committed. I don’t have an English language source yet. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/184 "2023-10-08T19:15:40Z")
Damn. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/185 "2023-10-08T19:18:21Z")
Jerusalem Post has only that info in their breaking news thread: > Some 260 bodies recovered from area of party massacre By [JERUSALEM POST STAFF](https://www.jpost.com/author/jerusalem-post-staff) At least 260 bodies were recovered from the area of the party in Re’im in which Hamas terrorists carried out a massacre, medical emergency service ZAKA said. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/186 "2023-10-08T19:18:27Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I don’t have an English language source yet. It’s here for now, although I don’t know if this link will hold up, it’s a live updates feed. > **[Oct. 8: Hamas, PIJ claim to hold 130 Israelis captive in Gaza, including IDF...](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-october-8-2023/)** > > ZAKA volunteer group says more than 250 bodies collected from site of music festival; families of missing Israelis beg for answers; residents of Sderot ordered to stay inside ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/187 "2023-10-08T19:25:22Z")
Here’s a blog post from _The Times of Israel,_ written by my friend, Noah. He and his family are okay (for now); many people they know are not. > **[Now, in the awful quiet of this moment](https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/now-in-the-awful-quiet-of-this-moment/?fbclid=IwAR26_niQzhXTd12uvq0GJQPva47WHh-cyV6q-GZRHOawtYomwny-RAEVVbE)** > > Just before the retaliation and recriminations, it's worth noting three things we’ve discovered in this tragedy ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/188 "2023-10-08T19:35:37Z")
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/waiting-for-official-help-relatives-scan-graphic-videos-from-gaza-to-find-missing/?\_gl=1\*18dsthe\*\_ga\*MTI0NzI3NjU0Ni4xNjk2NzA1Nzc1\*\_ga\_RJR2XWQR34\*MTY5Njc5MjczMC4yLjEuMTY5Njc5Mjg3Ni4wLjAuMA](https://www.timesofisrael.com/waiting-for-official-help-relatives-scan-graphic-videos-from-gaza-to-find-missing/?_gl=1*18dsthe*_ga*MTI0NzI3NjU0Ni4xNjk2NzA1Nzc1*_ga_RJR2XWQR34*MTY5Njc5MjczMC4yLjEuMTY5Njc5Mjg3Ni4wLjAuMA)… > Like many other images of abducted, wounded or dead Israelis, the photo that Rawitz posted on his Facebook page on Sunday with a Hebrew-language text attracted a torrent of gloating reactions, many of them in Arabic. Some commenters posted smiling emojis, others posted memes showing people bursting into laughter. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/189 "2023-10-08T19:44:14Z")
While they may or may not care for Hamas, indeed many Gazans don’t give a shit about Israeli civilians. (Which is an absolutely evil position to take), and I am not sure the feeling is not mutual (I know a journalist who visited Gaza recently and it was a serious shithole, insane unemployment, etc, not to mention how many tears are being shed for the civilians dying there as we write this) ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/190 "2023-10-08T19:46:04Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Security forces got to the site of that desert festival and found over 260 dead bodies. Total death count is up to 700 so far. > > … For comparison: that means as a proportion of the country’s population Israel’s death toll is more than 7 times the US death toll from 9/11. And I suppose more bodies will be found, and hostages _may_ well be killed, and Israeli soldiers _will_ die if Israel moves into Gaza. Just awful. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/191 "2023-10-08T20:14:10Z")
> [@susan](#): > > At least 260 bodies were recovered from the area of the party in Re’im in which Hamas terrorists carried out a massacre, medical emergency service ZAKA said. A Wiki page for it was just created: [2023 Re’im music festival massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Re%27im_music_festival_massacre) ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/192 "2023-10-08T20:16:16Z")
I’m seeing reports on CNN that at least three Americans have been killed in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/193 "2023-10-08T21:01:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Israeli officials have updated the number of dead upward to 500; that number is expected to rise. Is that total dead on both sides, or just on the Israeli side? > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Also related to Germany, the young woman whose semi-naked body was paraded by Hamas militants in a pick-up truck was a German citizen. Hamas may not have been aware of her citizenship when they abducted her (I’ve heard reports of both abduction and murder for her, I’m trying to be optimistic). I doubt anyone was checking passports prior to committing violence. She was at a music festival when the place was attacked. I’d link to the NYT article on it but it’s part of their live updates and I can’t seem to make a gift link to it. A lot of people (over 200 according to Israeli officials) were killed, a lot kidnapped, and a lot injured. It was apparently completely chaotic. Nor am I surprised that Americans are among the abducted. I’m guessing there are a lot of foreign nationals caught up in this mess. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Are we assuming a bunch of these anti-missiles failed, for various reasons? There seems to be so much damage and casualties. Anti-missile systems can be defeated by simply firing a lot more missiles at them. They’re good, but far from perfect. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Would the paragliders have flown in under the ‘radar’ as it were? That is technically possible, but a lot depends on the radar coverage (does it go all the way to the ground, does it stop at tree-top level or higher, is anything blocking the radar line-of-sight). They are also very slow for flying things - they’re foot launched and landed so at take off or landing they’re limited to a fast run (while laden with 40-80 or more pounds of engine, prop, and gear on the back of the pilot), and they don’t go that much faster in the air. Some commercial aviation radar systems filter out flying things below a certain speed so the radar screen don’t fill up with birds, butterflies, and other random airborne stuff and those paragliders could have been slow enough to be filtered out. They would still show up on what’s called primary radar, which shows everything, but then you have to find them among every other blip on the screen. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder where they got them. Lots of places. Or a third party could have ordered them and snuck them into Gaza. They pack up pretty small since a lot of their bulk while in use is a fabric airfoil/oversize parachute. I’ve seen people fit two entire rigs into the trunk of a car even more in the back of an SUV. > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I’m seeing reports on CNN that at least three Americans have been killed in Israel. I’m sure it’s more than that, and that’s aside from people with dual citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/194 "2023-10-08T21:04:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Is that total dead on both sides, or just on the Israeli side? Just the Israeli side, and the number is now 700. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/195 "2023-10-08T21:04:28Z")
I’ve been given to understand that Iron Dome can take down drones. Under the circumstances, I would believe that would be your basic inexpensive low flying drone the Ukrainians use to drop mortar shells. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/196 "2023-10-08T21:08:41Z")
I honestly don’t know - “drone” covers everything from tiny things that fit in the palm of your hand that weigh mere grams/ounces all the way up to remote controlled full size aircraft that can carry large payloads. Israel, like everywhere else, has plenty of drones and uses for drones. The Iron Dome can’t be popping off every time a news agency or YouTuber launches a flying video camera. But, like everything else military, I don’t expect us civilians/non-IDF folks to be able to get details on what it’s looking for, what it’s programmed to ignore, and what it simply can’t see. ---
**Author:** ![Nightaudit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nightaudit/32/17181_2.png) [@Nightaudit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightaudit)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/197 "2023-10-08T21:29:21Z")
Is there any chance the Moskols are involved… I wouldn’t put it past Putin to engage in some shit stirring in other parts of the world to make it uncomfortable for the countries that have taken Ukraine’s side. That and there’s a lot of recently made unemployed Wagner mercenary in the area that could have done some consulting work for Hamas? Russians have a lot of experience with setting up and running Progroms…antisemitism seems to be a rampant thing in Slavic countries… from what I’m reading and hearing about this is seems way too organized and way too well coordinated/ conducted to not have had any outside involvement from state actors like Russia, Iran, or other states in the region. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/198 "2023-10-08T21:37:30Z")
Don’t know if this has been posted earlier, but here’s a video showing little kids abducted by Hamas. In fucking cages. > ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/199 "2023-10-08T21:42:20Z")
I’ve seen that video on social media but haven’t seen it verified on any legitimate site yet. I don’t know if it’s real or not. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/200 "2023-10-08T21:43:51Z")
Is the guy speaking Arabic? If so, do you know what he’s saying? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/201 "2023-10-08T21:44:35Z")
I’ve seen that there are many videos that _are_ real where people are being executed in the streets, etc - from the carnage yesterday - but nothing verified about captives in Gaza so far. I do not speak Arabic. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/202 "2023-10-08T21:47:24Z")
Here’s a more reliable source. It notes that there are videos that show Israeli captives being taken into Gaza. > **[What we know about Israeli hostages taken by Hamas](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67044255)** > > A "significant number" of Israelis are being held by Hamas in the Gaza Strip, the Israeli military says. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=11)