# Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news, israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 7, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234 "2023-10-07T10:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/276 "2023-10-10T00:05:47Z")
In answer to my curiosity about what a “Quint” is, and whether it’s like the G7 or Five Eyes, yes – it’s understood to refer to the **[NATO Quint](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quint_(international_organization))**. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/277 "2023-10-10T00:08:35Z")
Yeah it is: > Over the coming days, we will remain united and coordinated, together as allies, and as common friends of Israel, to ensure Israel is able to defend itself, and to ultimately set the conditions for a peaceful and integrated Middle East region. Seems to give Israel carte blanche to do what they need to solve this as they see fit. The gloves are off. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/278 "2023-10-10T00:10:20Z")
Summary: we strongly support Israel. There is no excuse for terrorism. We support Israel’s defense. We recognize the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people, but reject the idea that Hamas represents Palestinians or their aspirations. We will act as allies to Israel, abd believe this is working towards peace. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/279 "2023-10-10T00:12:19Z")
That’s an admirably unambiguous statement. I suspect it was accompanied by a less formally worded back channel message to Iran: If you like missiles, we have plenty. We can send you some. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/280 "2023-10-10T00:40:00Z")
Meanwhile, from the other side, the president of the Palestinian Authority is calling on the UN to intervene in what he termed “Israeli aggression” in Gaza. It’s in the rolling CNN updates so I’m not sure I can link to it, but here’s an extract (posted by CNN less than an hour ago): > Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called on the United Nations to take immediate action against the continued “Israeli aggression” toward Palestinians. > > Abbas made the remarks on a phone call with UN Secretary-General António Guterres, according to the state news agency WAFA. > > Abbas called on the UN to "immediately intervene to stop the ongoing Israeli aggression against the Palestinian people, particularly in the Gaza Strip,” WAFA reported on Monday. > > The Palestinian president emphasized the urgent need for medical and relief aid in Gaza, drawing attention to the looming humanitarian crisis. He urged the UN to “uphold its responsibilities as recognized by international legitimacy and ensure protection for the Palestinian people.” ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/281 "2023-10-10T00:49:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Meanwhile, from the other side, the president of the Palestinian Authority is calling on the UN to intervene in what he termed “Israeli aggression” in Gaza. Israel: “Okay. We’ll pause missile strikes and our ground offensive while you hand over every Israeli and other nationals Hamas took as hostages, unharmed, AND expel all Hamas members currently hiding in Gaza to the Israeli authorities. Do that and we wont continue the bombardment and siege of Gaza. You have until the day after tomorrow to comply.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/282 "2023-10-10T00:51:21Z")
Yes! I need more characters, so I will elaborate and agree with this message. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/283 "2023-10-10T01:11:59Z")
Uh, you do realize the President of the PA has no power to do any of that, right? What little authority he has applies only in the West Bank. In Gaza, Hamas isn’t “hiding”, they’re running the government (such as it is). ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/284 "2023-10-10T01:17:23Z")
Hamas’ position is that they won’t negotiate about hostages until _after_ Israel calls a cease fire. I doubt they’re deluded enough to think that will happen, so apparently they’re looking forward to more civilian deaths they can exploit for propaganda purposes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/285 "2023-10-10T01:39:56Z")
Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/286 "2023-10-10T01:52:43Z")
Yeah, I know. But my statement is equally absurd as Abbas’. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/287 "2023-10-10T02:51:57Z")
Is there any information on how Israel missed this? The Mossad is considered one of the finest intelligence agencies on the planet and, one would think, they would have loads of informants in Gaza. But they completely missed this (as did the US and everyone else). It is hard to believe such a large operation, with so many missiles (5,000?) and people engaged to attack was utterly missed. Yet, here we are and it does seem to have been completely missed. That is another kind of scary to add to the pile. > “This is Israel’s 9/11. Not since 1973 has there been such a catastrophic intelligence failure in Israel,” said Marc Polymeropoulos, who worked for 26 years for the CIA, where he specialized in counterterrorism, the Middle East and South Asia. > > Israel’s intelligence services have long been seen as some of the most capable in the world, with an array of human intelligence, eavesdropping and other technical means blanketing the West Bank and Gaza. > > “It is almost inconceivable how they missed this,” said Polymeropoulos. - [SOURCE](https://news.yahoo.com/did-israel-u-miss-hamas-205718758.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/288 "2023-10-10T03:03:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is there any information on how Israel missed this? > **[Israeli colonel: Bad intelligence analysis and political interference to blame](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-colonel-bad-intelligence-analysis-political-interference-blame)** > > Military commander tells MEE that Israel had information that an attack was brewing but failed to predict the worst In short: Israel was aware of the presence of most of the hardware and attack vectors but thought that they were just intended for random badgering, disconnected from one another. Of course, the article comes from an Islamic side news source (probably UAE funded) so there’s some potential that there’s no such colonel and the article was written to sow doubt towards Bibi. Not related to your question but also worth a read: > **[A wounded, weakened Israel is a fiercer one](https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-wounded-weakened-israel-is-a-fiercer-one/)** > > The assault on Israeli towns was as cruel as Hamas could make it, and every agonizing minute was broadcast to Israelis as a message and a humiliation. Now comes the Israeli answer ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/289 "2023-10-10T05:10:08Z")
According to the _New York Times,_ the Israeli military has mobilized at least 300,000 reserves, which does not sound like preparation for a cease-fire. I would not like to predict precise scenarios except I feel like a fair bet is it won’t be nice for any of the parties involved. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/290 "2023-10-10T05:42:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is there any information on how Israel missed this? > > The Mossad is considered one of the finest intelligence agencies on the planet and, one would think, they would have loads of informants in Gaza. Netanyahu apparently redirected their efforts, and those of at least some of the military, towards dealing with internal dissent, particularly the nationwide protests of his planned bastardisation of the judiciary. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/291 "2023-10-10T07:48:14Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Don’t know if this has been posted earlier, but here’s a video showing little kids abducted by Hamas. In fucking cages. Fortunately, this appears to be untrue. Per Snopes, it was likely filmed in Syria in 2015 and it’s a dad playing a prank on his kids who were playing in the chicken coop. > **[Does Video Show Children in Chicken Coop Cages in Israel-Hamas Conflict in...](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/children-cages-video-israel-hamas/)** > > In the video, five children are seen behind the bars of a chicken coop as a man apparently recording the clip laughs at their predicament. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/292 "2023-10-10T10:50:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Is there any information on how Israel missed this? > > The Mossad is considered one of the finest intelligence agencies on the planet and, one would think, they would have loads of informants in Gaza. > > But they completely missed this (as did the US and everyone else). Terrorists can fail again and again and keep trying. A nation’s security/intelligence has to be successful _every single time_. Make a mistake, miss something, and this is what can happen. One feature of terrorists failing is that they might learn from each failure and get better at operational security and sneaking around. There are a lot of theories floating around, from incompetence to replacing experience people with political appointees to political interference to wag-the-dog to outside help for Hamas to Hamas just improving that much. I suspect a combination of factors were at work. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/293 "2023-10-10T10:53:21Z")
Is anyone calling this the Second Yom Kippur War, or is this just going to go down in history as “the October 2023 Hamas attack?” Yes, I know, not the same day as Yom Kippur, but very close. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/294 "2023-10-10T10:59:36Z")
2023 Hamas Attack works pretty well. Sure, it’s almost exactly 50 years since the 1973 Yom Kippur war by the calendar we use, but the attack actually occurred on Shemini Atzeret on the Jewish Calendar, at the end of the multi-day holiday of Sukkot, and continuing into Simchat Torah, so I can see where the Israelis wouldn’t automatically call it the Second Yom Kippur War because it wasn’t Yom Kippur. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/295 "2023-10-10T11:22:03Z")
OK, here’s the Hamas Head of Political and International Relations asserting that no Israeli civilians have been killed. Those people were all soldiers. Of course, a lot depends on how you define “soldier”. I don’t think his definition and my definition are the same at all. [Video here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egipqa0ZhUk) I tried to post in-line but it wouldn’t let me. I’m not entirely sure why sometimes I can and sometimes I can’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=15)