# Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news, israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 7, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234 "2023-10-07T10:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/357 "2023-10-11T23:42:52Z")
I just heard an IDF guy interviewed on NPR. He recounted beheaded and burned babies. Jesus. Oh, he said he “got rid of” the guys who did it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/358 "2023-10-12T02:00:43Z")
6 posts were merged into an existing topic: [Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-hamas-attacks-israel-thread-october-2023/991317/91) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/359 "2023-10-12T00:26:58Z")
Watching CNN right now, the Anderson Cooper 360 show. He’s interviewing people who have lost family members–a granddaughter describing how her grandmother was taken away on a motorcycle, a father whose daughter (a child) was killed in a nearby kibbutz. Her body was found and he was thankful she was dead, because it would have been a more horrific outcome if she had been taken alive. There was also some video, I guess by Hamas, showing a fighter entering someplace and shooting anything that moved. No people, thankfully, but the video shows the fighter gunning down a dog. Heartbreaking interviews and video. Now, we’ve gone to a commercial. Never thought I’d be so glad of a commercial break. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/360 "2023-10-12T00:28:53Z")
Biden confirms that he has seen evidence of the carnage. > **[Biden says he saw photos of 'terrorists beheading children' in Israel-Hamas war](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna119865)** > > The president has condemned Hamas’ terrorist attacks and vowed U.S. support for Israel. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/361 "2023-10-12T00:29:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I just heard an IDF guy interviewed on NPR. He recounted beheaded and burned babies. I think we should all hold out for better confirmation than “some IDF guy” on that. Remember the Nayirah testimony in 1990? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/362 "2023-10-12T00:30:33Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I think we should all hold out for better confirmation than “some IDF guy” on that. Remember the Nayirah testimony in 1990?. How about one Joseph R Biden? > **[White House clarifies Biden's claim he saw photos of terrorists beheading...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna119865)** > > After the comments, the White House clarified that Biden had read news reports. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/363 "2023-10-12T00:33:05Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > How about one Joseph R Biden? He could be just as wrong about it as Bush was to use that false testimony as partial justification. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/365 "2023-10-12T00:40:52Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > He could be just as wrong about it as Bush was to use that false testimony as partial justification. There were definitely babies murdered - the names of the identified dead are being released by Israel. I don’t find the idea that someone who’s willing to murder babies would also be willing to mutilate the bodies. But if you find that incredible, you’re welcome to wait for independent confirmation before deciding how you feel about Hamas’ actions. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/366 "2023-10-12T00:44:39Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > He could be just as wrong about it as Bush was to use that false testimony as partial justification. Partial justification for what, in this situation? Who is suggesting that Israel should act any differently based on that specific fact? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/368 "2023-10-12T00:50:20Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Partial justification for what? That testimony was cited as a reason for First Gulf War. All I am saying is that highly charged and extraordinary claims require evidence. And that it wouldn’t be the first time a President was given inaccurate information. Whether that story is true or a lie isn’t going to change anything about what Israel does, but I think it’s reasonable to be skeptical of such a claim when it’s first made. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/370 "2023-10-12T01:06:13Z")
While there’s always uncertainty about exactly what is happening during a war, the evidence for a huge number of murdered civilians, including men, women, children, and babies, is overwhelming. Even i know of a specific victim, and I’m here in the US with only a handful of contacts in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/373 "2023-10-12T01:23:08Z")
Murdered, sure. I’m not questioning the death toll. But I am skeptical of a claim of that level of barbarity. It could have happened. Or it could be propaganda. I suspect we’ll know for sure soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/374 "2023-10-12T01:44:24Z")
I do not. Sorry I didn’t get the IDF guy’s name, I was replacing the battery in Mrs. Plant’s car. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/375 "2023-10-12T01:45:48Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > No people, thankfully, but the video shows the fighter gunning down a dog. I quit watching at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/376 "2023-10-12T01:46:43Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Murdered, sure. I’m not questioning the death toll. But I am skeptical of a claim of that level of barbarity. It could have happened. Or it could be propaganda. I suspect we’ll know for sure soon enough. There are countless examples of that level of barbarity throughout history. I will not hijack this thread with examples but I encourage you to do some research on your own. With those examples I see no reason to rule out any of the atrocities reported in the news. What has been confirmed as propaganda are falsified news reports spread on social media. Right now, if it’s one social media I assume it’s untrue until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/377 "2023-10-12T02:03:28Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [Why not encourage people to move from Gaza to the West Bank](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-not-encourage-people-to-move-from-gaza-to-the-west-bank/991296/60) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/378 "2023-10-12T01:03:32Z")
Moderating: Speculating about nuclear and biological warfare is just that, speculation. Please take it to another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/379 "2023-10-12T05:09:20Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > But I am skeptical of a claim of that level of barbarity. [It happens all the time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre). Humans are wonderful, loving, creative, caring, nurturing, and productive animals. They’re also snarling, vicious and bloodthirsty animals and there is no contradiction there. They can even be all of the above in the same individual. I recall a letter written by a British officer back to his wife after the [Sepoy Mutiny in India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857) wherein he voiced astonishment at the [bloodthirsty things he himself had done](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857#Death_toll_and_atrocities). When the blood is up any atrocity can seem justified. Atrocities happen in war, including those committed by “our side”, whoever that may be. It’s reason number one why wars suck - they dehumanize. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/380 "2023-10-12T05:20:28Z")
That was very hard to watch. The dog was wagging his tail. I think it was security cams from the house. Anderson Cooper had a tough time getting through his spots today. Clarissa Ward was shuffled to a ditch under fire. Erin Burnett, same. Nick??, long time middle east reporter was a mile away from an active fire fight. Brave reporters. I never liked the embedding of reporters in these situations but there needs to be a light on these things so maybe we can change it. I have little hope, but I do have some. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2023, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/381 "2023-10-12T05:30:55Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Nick??, long time middle east reporter was a mile away from an active fire fight. Nick Paton Walsh? CNN seems to send him world hotspots frequently. Don’t forget Jeremy Diamond. He’s on the ground in Israel, near the action, and has been filing reports in this conflict for CNN. You’re right; brave reporters all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=19)