# Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news, israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 7, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234 "2023-10-07T10:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/488 "2023-10-20T01:36:29Z")
Have you links to any pictures? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/489 "2023-10-20T01:44:29Z")
I’m not sure if this is the venue to post graphic videos of dead people. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/490 "2023-10-20T01:50:55Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > How did Hamas get this much detail about each settlement? Google Earth? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/491 "2023-10-20T02:03:57Z")
Maps of the bombing of Gaza: > > ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/492 "2023-10-20T07:08:54Z")
Bear in mind that the bombing is just preparation for the ground invasion, which will probably start within the next few nights. Based on what I can tell, it’s going to be the largest military operation anywhere in the world since the 2003 allied invasion of Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/493 "2023-10-20T07:13:13Z")
My understanding is that the area around the hospital was in fact packed with civilians hoping to find shelter in a place they thought unlikely to be bombed, so the higher estimates for the death count don’t seem that implausible. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/494 "2023-10-20T07:26:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@aceplace57](#): > > > > How did Hamas get this much detail about each settlement? > > Google Earth? Heh. I don’t see any reason to think Hamas had spies on the inside. The kibbutzim are all on the map, and AFIACT they just attacked them all. Some were better able to defend themselves than others, but I haven’t seen any evidence that Hamas avoided the well-prepared ones. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/495 "2023-10-20T08:14:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Google Earth? In fact, for many years the Israeli government didn’t allow Google to use high-resolution satellite images for Google Earth maps of Israel, so that they wouldn’t be used for targeting purposes. They changed the policy a few years ago, which is something I’m sure will come up in future inquiries. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/496 "2023-10-20T11:08:16Z")
Bigger than Russia/Ukraine? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/497 "2023-10-20T11:09:16Z")
I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/498 "2023-10-20T12:25:38Z")
CNN interviewed some Israelis who successfully defended their kibbutz. There were people from Gaza who worked in the kibbutz. One of the defenders recognized one as he shot him. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/499 "2023-10-20T12:53:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I stand corrected. It’s really a surprisingly small area. Israel is basically the size and population of the state of New Jersey going to war with an area roughly the size of New York City with a population of 2 million or so, [https://mapfight.xyz/map/gaza/#nyc](https://mapfight.xyz/map/gaza/#nyc) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/500 "2023-10-20T18:06:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > CNN interviewed some Israelis who successfully defended their kibbutz. > There were people from Gaza who worked in the kibbutz. One of the defenders recognized one as he shot him. Cross-border commerce would obviously ultimately be a desirable feature of a peaceful two-state solution. But Netanyahu’s policy appears to have been to encourage it under the blockade to _prop up Hamas_ as a foil to weaken other Palestinian factions. > **[For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)** > > The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from > Toward the end of Netanyahu’s fifth government in 2021, approximately 2,000-3,000 work permits were issued to Gazans. This number climbed to 5,000 and, during the Bennett-Lapid government, rose sharply to 10,000. Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/501 "2023-10-21T02:07:21Z")
Two hostages (US citizens) have been released. > **[Israel Gaza live news: Two US hostages released by Hamas - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67165505)** > > Judith and Natalie Raanan were among the 200 being held in Gaza after the Hamas attacks on 7 October. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/502 "2023-10-21T02:10:12Z")
That’s two more than I assumed were still alive. Good news. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/503 "2023-10-21T05:18:07Z")
There’d be no point in kidnapping people only to kill them soon after - you may as well have killed them immediately. You kidnap to have some leverage. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/504 "2023-10-21T05:30:48Z")
I sort of assumed the hostages were dead as soon as Hamas realized that Israel wasn’t going to negotiate for them. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/505 "2023-10-21T12:11:36Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The photos of the burned-out cars in the parking lot next to the hospital don’t seem to jibe with the idea of “hundreds” dead or seriously injured. Unless there was a mass gathering in the parking lot, I just don’t know how that’s likely based on the damage I’ve seen. Apparently numerous people were sleeping in and around the parking lot. > [@Smapti](#): > > That’s two more than I assumed were still alive. Good news. Hostages have a certain value and are usually worth keeping alive. It’s far less trouble to simply kill or leave behind people rather than taking them prisoner. I’m sure with the bombardment some of the hostages have been killed but I expect most are still alive and getting what food, water, and medical treatment can be provided. > [@Smapti](#): > > I sort of assumed the hostages were dead as soon as Hamas realized that Israel wasn’t going to negotiate for them. International hostages - those with citizenship other than Israeli - continue to have value if they can be used to pressure other nations or otherwise gain advantage for Hamas. In other news: the news is reporting this morning that the Rafah gate has been opened and aid trucks are entering Gaza. But it’s only 20 trucks. I suppose it’s better than nothing. > **[Rafah border crossing opens, allowing only 20 aid trucks into Gaza](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/21/rafah-border-crossing-between-gaza-egypt-opens-for-aid-trucks)** > > A small convoy enters the Gaza Strip from Egypt, carrying desperately needed medicine and food supplies. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/506 "2023-10-21T18:42:54Z")
One would think the Hamas tunnels had fuel and generators in them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/507 "2023-10-21T18:44:29Z")
I’m certain they do, but I doubt they share that electricity with the civilian population. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=25)