# Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news, israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 7, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234 "2023-10-07T10:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/548 "2023-10-25T17:01:58Z")
I’ve read that in abandoned settlements greenhouse plumbing was removed and sold. I do wonder wherever the rocket casings come from, what is used for propellant and warheads. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/549 "2023-10-25T17:08:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I do wonder wherever the rocket casings come from, what is used for propellant and warheads. Propellant is a mix of sugar and fertilizer, warhead is smuggled explosives or more fertilizer. The warhead is set off using a bullet cartridge. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/550 "2023-10-25T18:14:35Z")
Thanks, Babale. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/551 "2023-10-25T20:32:24Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Propellant is a mix of sugar and fertilizer, warhead is smuggled explosives or more fertilizer. The warhead is set off using a bullet cartridge. And as far as aiming them, I suppose ‘Thataway’ is what they use. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/552 "2023-10-25T21:01:59Z")
yep, sometimes it Thatway, right over the Hospital ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/553 "2023-10-25T21:49:28Z")
They are doing better than Congreve. The British finally just fired them off on the ground to frighten horses. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/554 "2023-10-25T22:33:25Z")
> **[Will the Gaza war spread through the Middle East? Hezbollah has the answer](https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/will-the-gaza-war-spread-through-the-middle-east-hezbollah-has-the-answer-20231024-p5eeop.html?btis)** > > While the lethal Lebanese force is helping Hamas with rockets from the north, it will be wary about provoking Israel’s unbridled wrath. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/555 "2023-10-27T20:30:03Z")
> **[Israel says it's 'expanding' ground activities in Gaza as internet blackout...](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/27/1209084199/israel-military-expanding-operations-gaza-hamas-communications-internet)** > > Israel's military has escalated operations in Gaza over the past few days. Internet and phone service were out in Gaza after a barrage of airstrikes, a Palestinian telecommunications company reported. The ground war is beginning. > **[Israel Gaza live news: Israel says ground operations expanding as it...](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67223217)** > > Communications go down in the Gaza Strip and large explosions are seen. The IDF says it's attacking underground targets. > **[Israel stepping up Gaza ground operations, White House supports pause for aid](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/eu-calls-humanitarian-pauses-gaza-aid-israel-raids-enclave-2023-10-26/)** > > Israeli air and ground forces are stepping up operations in the Gaza Strip, Israel's chief military spokesperson said on Friday, amid reports of heavy bombing of the besieged enclave. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/556 "2023-10-28T12:11:12Z")
> **[As Palestinians scrounge for food and water, Hamas sits on rich trove of...](https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/as-palestinians-scrounge-for-food-and-water-hamas-sits-on-rich-trove-of-supplies-20231028-p5efrj.html?btis)** > > As supplies of virtually every basic human necessity dwindle in the Gaza Strip, one group in the besieged enclave remains well-stocked: Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/557 "2023-10-28T15:32:50Z")
Morning (US) update: > **[Israel's Netanyahu calls Gaza expansion the second phase of a 'long war'](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/28/1209243034/israeli-troops-remain-in-gaza-marking-significant-escalation-of-conflict)** > > As Israel intensified its attacks on the militant group Hamas, Gaza remained under a near-total communications blackout. More than 1.4 million people in Gaza are displaced, the U.N. estimates. > For the last several days, the Israel Defense Forces had mounted a series of limited incursions into Gaza, in which soldiers left soon after entering. But Saturday’s announcement was the first extended presence of Israeli troops in the territory. > **[Israeli troops clear Gaza areas 'slice by slice', but is this an invasion?](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67248454)** > > The Israeli army is focusing on northern Gaza in what promises to be a very large military operation. > The town itself is almost deserted. > Most civilians have either left or been evacuated. From 6 hours ago: > **[What is Hamas and why is it fighting with Israel in Gaza?](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67039975)** > > Why did Hamas attack Israel, and what has happened in Gaza since the 7 October raid? > The Israeli military has massed tens of thousands of soldiers along the territory’s perimeter fence, along with tanks and artillery. It has activated some 300,000 reservists, alongside its standing force of 160,000. > Hamas is thought to have about 25,000 people in its military wing. It also has a vast labyrinth of underground tunnels across Gaza, which it has previously claimed stretch 500km (310 miles). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/558 "2023-10-29T02:00:28Z")
**[Express 28 Oct 2023](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1829092/Erdogan-Turkey-Israel-war-Gaza)** **The Turkish president suggested in a speech at a pro-Palestine rally this afternoon that Turkey can “come at any night unexpectedly”.** - Erdogan delivered a speech to a rally this afternoon in which he told attendees Israel was responsible for war crimes, and framed Hamas as “freedom fighters”. - The footage, which is currently circulating on X, formerly known as Twitter, purportedly showed the pro-Palestine crowd responding with the chant: “Turkish military to Gaza.” Wow. The Turkish President is **A:** attending a pro Palestinian rally and **B:** threatening to join them. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/559 "2023-10-30T15:19:17Z")
News updates: > **[Israeli forces attack north Gaza's main city from both sides](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-pounds-gazas-north-it-steps-up-ground-assault-2023-10-30/)** > > Palestinians in northern Gaza reported fierce air and artillery strikes as Israeli troops backed by tanks pressed into the enclave with a ground assault that prompted more international calls for civilians to be protected. > **[Israel Gaza live news: Israel offensive presses deeper into Gaza as tank seen...](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466)** > > Israel's military says it will not confirm its positions after verified video showed a tank on the main road south of Gaza City. > **[Israel presses into Gaza as pro-Palestinian protests spread worldwide](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/30/1209380561/israel-presses-into-gaza-as-pro-palestinian-protests-spread-worldwide)** > > Since the intensified operation began Friday night, Israeli airstrikes have hit more than 600 Hamas targets, Israel said, and about a thousand people in Gaza have died, the Gaza health ministry said. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/560 "2023-11-01T00:14:55Z")
> **[Israel-Hamas war live: US and Israel ‘consider peacekeeping force in Gaza’;...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/oct/31/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-latest-news-today-hamas-clashes-idf-gaza-aid-plan-failure)** > > Media reports say force could include US, UK and French troops; defence spokesman Daniel Hagari says Israeli military killed top Hamas commander Israel attack of refugee camp takes down one of the Hamas planners. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/561 "2023-11-01T01:39:10Z")
It appears to me that hamas takes shelter behind human shields, and the Israelis don’t give a damn. Given the population ratio, killing 1200 Israelis is equivalent to killing 50,000 Americans. They want to be rid of hamas. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/562 "2023-11-01T02:08:01Z")
I wouldn’t say they don’t give a damn. But after allowing every prior engagement to end in a “ceasefire” resulted in the October 7 atrocity, it’s clear that doing anything short of beating Hamas all the way to surrender or destruction is Israel’s only option for any sort of eventual peaceful co-existence with whoever will be in charge of Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/563 "2023-11-01T19:17:09Z")
Agreed, ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/564 "2023-11-01T19:24:12Z")
I’ve noticed a lot of US based journalists sniffing around “rules of war” at the major press conferences with American officials. Without taking “sides”, it begs the question. These “rules of war” are not ordinarily specified, or if they have been, I’ve not heard. What specific “rules” of war are Israel and Hamas signatory to, if any? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/565 "2023-11-01T20:23:49Z")
It’s likely Israel is trying to hold itself to the customary laws of war, but anything extraordinary will probably be defended by military necessity (which is also typical). I don’t know if Hamas is operating under any rules other than “kill as many Israelis as possible” and “make Israel look as bad as possible”. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/566 "2023-11-01T21:59:09Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > These “rules of war” are not ordinarily specified, or if they have been, I’ve not heard. …these rules of law are very much specified, well known, ratified by 196 states. You don’t need to use “” around them. They are very much real. > [@NZ Red Cross](#): > > ### The rules of war > > 1. Protect those who are not fighting, such as civilians, medical personnel or aid workers. > 2. Protect those who are no longer able to fight, like an injured soldier or a prisoner. > 3. Prohibit targeting civilians. Doing so is a war crime. > 4. Recognize the right of civilians to be protected from the dangers of war and receive the help they need. Every care must be taken to avoid harming them or their houses, or destroying their means of survival, such as water sources, crops, livestock. > 5. Mandate that the sick and wounded have a right to be cared for, regardless of whose side they are on. > 6. Specify that medical workers, medical vehicles, and hospitals dedicated to humanitarian work cannot be attacked. > 7. Prohibit torture and degrading treatment of prisoners. > 8. Specify that detainees must receive food and water and be allowed to communicate with their loved ones. > 9. Limit the weapons and tactics that can be used in war, to avoid unnecessary suffering. > 10. Explicitly forbid rape or other forms of sexual violence in the context of armed conflict. > **[International Humanitarian Law](https://www.redcross.org.nz/about-us/what-we-stand-for/international-humanitarian-law/)** > > International humanitarian law, also known as the rules of war, applies to armed conflicts. It aims to limit the suffering in armed conflicts and save lives. > [@Common\_Tater](#): > > What specific “rules” of war are Israel and Hamas signatory to, if any? The thing is, Hamas don’t need to be a signatory for Israel to not be in compliance. The Red Cross considers the Gaza strip to be [occupied territory](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/what-does-law-say-about-responsibilities-occupying-power-occupied-palestinian-territories-enar). The [Fourth Geneva Convention](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949) " affords protection to civilians, including in occupied territory." > [@gnoitall](#): > > I don’t know if Hamas is operating under any rules other than “kill as many Israelis as possible” and “make Israel look as bad as possible”. By the numbers: Israel have killed so far since October 7th: [3500 children](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/un-child-rights-committee-condemns-killing-children-gaza-strip), [29 journalists and media workers](https://cpj.org/2023/11/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/) (many in what looks like targeted strikes), [70 UN Aid Workers have been killed](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/31/middleeast/jabalya-blast-gaza-intl/index.html). There are people still trapped under the rubble. Hospitals desperate for fuel. People [drinking sea-water](https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/children-trapped-gaza-conflict-face-generational-trauma). The rules of law exist for a reason. It _isn’t_ to protect Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/567 "2023-11-01T22:10:22Z")
My son and I were debating which side is more at fault yesterday and came across a question we couldn’t easily Google the answer for: Did Israel allow residents of the Gaza Strip to become citizens after the initial offering in 1967 (not including becoming a citizen by marriage)? If so, when did they stop? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=28)