# Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news, israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 7, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234 "2023-10-07T10:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/61 "2023-10-07T21:48:15Z")
I’m willing to bet most or all of that is provocation from Hamas. It is not Israel just randomly pounding on Gaza. The 2008 attack (for example): > The Israeli government’s stated goal was to stop indiscriminate [Palestinian rocket fire into Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel)[[46]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)#cite_note-47) and weapons smuggling into the Gaza strip.[[47]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)#cite_note-48)[[48]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)#cite_note-49)[[49]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)#cite_note-guardian.co.uk-50) [Hamas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas) stated its rocket fire, which resumed in November 2008, was in response to an Israeli raid of a tunnel leading from Gaza, which it characterized as a ceasefire violation.[[50]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)#cite_note-:1-51)[[51]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)#cite_note-52) Israel said the raid was a preemptive strike against a tunnel they believed would be used to abduct Israeli soldiers guarding the border.[[50]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)#cite_note-:1-51)[[52]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)#cite_note-53) - [SOURCE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009)) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/62 "2023-10-07T21:50:06Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > That would be ethnic cleansing and a crime against humanity. It would be ethnic relocation. If you can’t stop attacking your neighbor in a feud then you risk forfeiture of your property. Clearly the Palestinians are allowing terrorists to use their land as a base to wage war. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/63 "2023-10-07T21:52:56Z")
Just another note that was forwarded to me – another rather distant cousin who lives in Israel and is obviously older: > [@](#): > > Terrible what’s going on here. Exactly 50 yrs ago, we suffered from the horrible failure causing the Yom Kippur war and today, another failure with no information whatsoever about what was happening on the Gaza strip border. With all the technology invested on the fences there, how did this happen? About 200 murdered (probably will be more),more than a thousand wounded and many taken as hostages. So we woke up to a siren alarm and for the next three hours in our shelter room with many sirens going off and noise from the missiles falling. After this, we didn’t have any more sirens, but we could hear the missiles falling not far from us. But the worst is the terrorists that entered kibbutzim on the border and killed members and took hostages. This is still not over and we have many friends that are in danger. We locked our doors and closed the shutters all day long and still now, in case that terrorists should attack us. Bibi declared that we are at war. > > So who knows what will happen now. You were absolutely right to cancel your trip, unfortunately. We can only hope for better times. Thank you for your thoughts. > > Love, > > P.S. At this moment, missiles are hitting the center of the country, Rechovot, Bat Yam,Cholon, Tel Aviv, Givatayim! My heart simply breaks. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/64 "2023-10-07T21:55:39Z")
Man remember when Israel left Gaza and removed Israeli settlements in Gaza? Miss those days. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/65 "2023-10-07T21:57:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It would be ethnic relocation. Ethnic relocation is ethnic cleansing: > **[Ethnic cleansing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing)** > > Ethnic cleansing or racial cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making a region ethnically homogeneous. Along with direct removal, extermination, deportation or population transfer, it also includes indirect methods aimed at forced migration by coercing the victim group to flee and preventing its return, such as murder, rape, and property destruction. It constitutes a crime against humanity and may also f Many ... ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/66 "2023-10-07T22:00:43Z")
Twitter has video of long columns of Israeli tanks heading for Gaza. IMO, at the very least Gaza is going to come under complete Israeli occupation. Worst case, the citizens are removed and deported to Egypt, Jordan or the West Bank, and Gaza gets absorbed into Israel. My biggest worry is that this is part of something bigger. I hope western militaries are on high alert against shenanigans from Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan, etc. At the least, this could have been encouraged by Russia and Iran as a distraction from Ukraine and to split western allegiances. Other than that, I got nothing to explain this. Hamas is going to lose, and lose big. And at this time, I don’t think it’s going to hurt Israel on the world stage. The Palestinians support Russia and are supported by the Russian axis, so I don’t think the Palestinians are going to find a lot of champions to come to their cause in the west this time. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/67 "2023-10-07T22:01:36Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Ethnic relocation is ethnic cleansing: Not when it’s your fault. This would be the result of repeated war. The Palestinians are responsible for waging war and should forfeit their land as a result. It would be a crime against humanity to allow this to on. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/68 "2023-10-07T22:04:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m willing to bet most or all of that is provocation from Hamas. It is not Israel just randomly pounding on Gaza. You do understand that a significant proportion of Palestinians are unhappy that they have been pushed out of their historic Palestinian homeland and feel they are treated as second-class citizens? [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F723xxTW8AAwbV0?format=jpg&name=small) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F723xxTW8AAwbV0?format=jpg&name=small) ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/69 "2023-10-07T22:05:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Not when it’s your fault. This would be the result of repeated war. The Palestinians are responsible for waging war and should forfeit their land as a result. It would be a crime against humanity to allow this to on. I believe that would come under the title of “collective punishment.” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/70 "2023-10-07T22:05:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Worst case, the citizens are removed and deported to Egypt, Jordan or the West Bank, and Gaza gets absorbed into Israel. This will not happen. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/71 "2023-10-07T22:07:05Z")
The majority of Palestinians (and Gazans in particular) are normal, peaceful humans who just want a peaceful life and a chance for their kids. They’re no different than any other big group of people anywhere else on Earth. The mass murderers currently rampaging in Israel are murderous scum, but their crimes are their own, and it’s tragic that peaceful men, women, and children living in Gaza are going to suffer for it. Hopefully Israel doesn’t follow your advice and harm (by forced relocation or otherwise) innocent children. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/72 "2023-10-07T22:13:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The majority of Palestinians (and Gazans in particular) are normal, peaceful humans who just want a peaceful life and a chance for their kids. If that were the case they wouldn’t allow Hamas to build up and launch thousands of rockets from their neighborhood. This didn’t happen overnight and it’s a recurring event. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/73 "2023-10-07T22:15:49Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Man remember when Israel left Gaza and removed Israeli settlements in Gaza? Miss those days. Remember when Israelis used to drive to Gaza, enjoy the beaches, and buy from street vendors? Then again, the good old days also had the Suez Crisis and Six-Day War. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/74 "2023-10-07T22:19:19Z")
To avoid a hijack in this thread I created a new thread in GD discussing this topic: - [Are Palestinians in Gaza a distinct ethnic group? Is pushing Palestinians out of Gaza “ethnic cleansing?”](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/75 "2023-10-07T22:21:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Twitter has video of long columns of Israeli tanks heading for Gaza. IMO, at the very least Gaza is going to come under complete Israeli occupation. Worst case, the citizens are removed and deported to Egypt, Jordan or the West Bank, and Gaza gets absorbed into Israel. Wait, what’s _best_ case? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/76 "2023-10-07T22:24:10Z")
Yes, I’m sure all those women and children, with no real functional government or security forces, were going to march up to armed, murderous gangs and tell them sharply to leave and then they’d leave. Yes, that’s exactly how it would go, thank you for educating me. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/77 "2023-10-07T22:27:48Z")
This is the case in pretty much every armed conflict ever throughout history (civilians who want nothing more than to get on with their normal lives getting wrecked between two opposing factions). It sucks but it doesn’t seem to count when deciding to go to war. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/78 "2023-10-07T22:31:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If that were the case they wouldn’t allow Hamas to build up and launch thousands of rockets from their neighborhood. This didn’t happen overnight and it’s a recurring event. There’s certainly significant support for violent action against Israel in Gaza, there’s no doubt about that. However, that’s because these people are brainwashed, and “tough” measures are the best recruitment tool Hamas has. The fact that they support a regime that kills people isn’t justification for killing noncombatants, any more than the heinous acts committed by Hamas today are justified by anything the IDF has ever done. What needs to happen now is that Israel will need to destroy Hamas’ capability to wage this war. That will mean ground troops in Gaza. That will mean a lot of dead Israeli troops, a lot of dead Hamas fighters, and yes, a lot of dead civilians. This blood is on Hamas’ hands. Once Israel secures this objective, though, you will _not_ see Israel do things like flatten Gaza or deport its citizens. This is because _unlike Hamas_, the Israelis are not bloodthirsty terrorists. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > You do understand that a significant proportion of Palestinians are unhappy that they have been pushed out of their historic Palestinian homeland and feel they are treated as second-class citizens? This is not the day for this. You want to have this discussion today of all days, go to the fucking Pit where you can be properly responded to. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/79 "2023-10-07T22:35:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This is not the day for this. You want to have this discussion today of all days, go to the fucking Pit where you can be properly responded to. Go for it. I will take it that your view is that this is the day to thump our chests and call for the the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/80 "2023-10-07T22:36:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This is the case in pretty much every armed conflict ever throughout history (civilians who want nothing more than to get on with their normal lives getting wrecked). It sucks but it doesn’t seem to count when deciding to go to war. Of course. Humans are humans. There’s nothing uniquely good or bad about Gazans, Palestinians, or any other big group of hundreds of thousands of humans. It’s absolutely terrible and tragic that there are murderous assholes among them, just as it’s tragic when they’re anywhere. And it’s especially tragic that these murderous assholes are causing violence that will lead to a response that will inevitably cause more suffering in Gaza. Hamas is killing Israelis and will cause more suffering for peaceful Gazans. Like Babale says (barring deliberate targeting of civilians by the IDF which will hopefully not occur), this blood and suffering that will result from these terrorist attacks is on Hamas’ hands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=5)