# Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news, israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 7, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234 "2023-10-07T10:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/81 "2023-10-07T22:37:50Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Go for it. I will take it that your view is that this is the day to thump our chests and call for the the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. You’re almost as wrong about this as you are about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as you’d know if you’d read _the very post you were responding to_ in full where I rebuked Magiver for expressing such a sentiment. The irony is almost _too_ perfect. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/82 "2023-10-07T22:39:03Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/83 "2023-10-07T22:40:19Z")
This is a breaking news thread. Not Great Debates or the Pit. I’m closing and flagging this thread for moderation. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/84 "2023-10-07T22:49:02Z")
Thanks, @What_Exit. Moderating: As noted, this is a breaking news thread. Let’s keep it clean for posting new, developing information on this event. For discussions you wish to pursue that go beyond breaking news, either start a new thread or take it up in an appropriate existing one, such as @Whack-a-Mole started above. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/85 "2023-10-07T22:49:22Z")
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**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/86 "2023-10-07T22:53:20Z")
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**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/87 "2023-10-07T23:03:43Z")
So much misinformation! Reposting from the other thread: > [@Are Palestinians in Gaza a distinct ethnic group? Is pushing Palestinians out of Gaza "ethnic cleansing?"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-palestinians-in-gaza-a-distinct-ethnic-group-is-pushing-palestinians-out-of-gaza-ethnic-cleansing/991255/7): > > Maybe rhetoric but this was posted by @Walken_After_Midnight in the other thread: > > [https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401](https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401) Here’s what Netanyahu said: > [@](#): > > כל המקומות שהחמאס מסתתר בהם ופועל בתוכם - נהפוך אותם לעיי חורבות. אני אומר לתושבי עזה, צאו משם עכשיו An accurate translation reads, ‘All the places that Hamas hides in and operates from - we will turn them into rubble. I am telling the citizens of Gaza, leave these places now.’ He’s talking about destroying specific buildings. Netanyahu is odious and vile. I feel dirty for having had to defend him, and will never forgive you for making me do so 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/88 "2023-10-07T23:07:50Z")
\<\< I goofed and posted in the wrong thread…my mistake…deleted by poster and apologies \>\> ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/89 "2023-10-07T23:08:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > He’s talking about destroying specific buildings. No doubt Israel has the tech to see exactly where rockets are fired from. In many cases Hamas will deliberately be using residential buildings or buildings in residential areas. Under these circumstances, I think Israel is perfectly justified in hitting these locations - that’s probably what we’re already seeing with air strikes. So he’s telling civilians to leave these locations, at least. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/90 "2023-10-07T23:10:30Z")
The near-certainty that this attack will lead to the total destruction of Hamas as a military force, and the likelihood that Hamas’s leaders are aware of this, makes me worry a great deal. Why would Hamas commit organizational suicide like this? Murderous as they are, surely their leaders want Hamas to continue to exist. As terrible as these attacks are, they don’t appear to actually threaten the existence of Israel (similar to how 9/11 didn’t threaten the existence of the USA). My worry is that this is the first shoe to drop, and not the entirety of their plan. Otherwise, it’s a nonsensical grand murder-suicide mission for the entire organization. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/91 "2023-10-07T23:12:28Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > No doubt Israel has the tech to see exactly where rockets are fired from. The problem is, these are not purpose-built launching sites. Hamas will move rockets into one place, fire them off and then that is it. Sure Israel can probably know where the rocket came from but, blowing that place up, is pretty much useless. Hamas is long gone and there are no rockets left there. Instead, some poor family that happens to live close by gets blown up. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/92 "2023-10-07T23:13:49Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The conspiracy theorist part of my brain wonders if this is a “wag the dog” on Netanyahu 's part? That would be enormously stupid. He was in charge when this happened, it’s his ball to drop. Further, the military hierarchy has been telling him for months that his nonsense with the courts is hurting thekr readiness levels. Right now everyone is banding together to respond to the invasion. He’s going to form an emergency government with the opposition parties. But when this is all over he’ll be crucified for dropping the ball this bad. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/93 "2023-10-07T23:14:42Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > No doubt Israel has the tech to see exactly where rockets are fired from. In many cases Hamas will deliberately be using residential buildings or buildings in residential areas. Under these circumstances, I think Israel is perfectly justified in hitting these locations - that’s probably what we’re already seeing with air strikes. So he’s telling civilians to leave these locations, at least. Just like they’ve done in prior conflicts. The fact that some people treat this as a call to wipe Gaza off the map reeks of “let’s you and him fight”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/94 "2023-10-07T23:17:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My worry is that this is the first shoe to drop, and not the entirety of their plan. Otherwise, it’s a nonsensical grand murder-suicide mission for the entire organization. It’s possible that they hoped Hezbollah would join in. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/95 "2023-10-07T23:18:27Z")
Moderating: > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The conspiracy theorist part of my brain wonders if this is a “wag the dog” on Netanyahu 's part? > > I have no evidence and that is a huge hijack, not for discussion in this thread. > > /hijack Knowing this, I have no idea why you posted in this thread. Stop it. * * * AGAIN, this is a breaking news thread. Take discussion about speculative matters to other threads. I won’t ask again. Warnings will issue if there is further “what if?” discussion in this thread, which should be confined to actual events occurring. What they mean is for discussion elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/96 "2023-10-07T23:19:18Z")
I am VERY sorry! I thought I was in the GD thread I made. It was a mistake. I deleted my post. Genuine apologies to all. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/97 "2023-10-07T23:20:31Z")
Wrong thread ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/98 "2023-10-07T23:23:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why would Hamas commit organizational suicide like this?.. > > My worry is that this is the first shoe to drop, and not the entirety of their plan. Otherwise, it’s a nonsensical grand murder-suicide mission for the entire organization. I do take their religious zealotry a face value. They are fanatics for whom martyrdom in jihad is the highest virtue, and who have faith that God is on their side. So I see no reason to assume that they must be behaving rationally, and infer some strategic plan. Look at all those who joined ISIS, nobody thinking rationally could have imagined that would end well for them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/99 "2023-10-07T23:25:36Z")
Maybe. But this is the first time (IIRC) they’ve tried anything on this scale, after decades and decades of smaller-scale operations. I guess we’ll find out soon. Hopefully my worries are unfounded. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/100 "2023-10-07T23:27:19Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I do take their religious zealotry a face value. They are fanatics for whom martyrdom in jihad is the highest virtue, and who have faith that God is on their side. I think this may be true of the common foot-soldier in Hamas but I think those in power are not guided by zealotry. Even if they are truly devout they understand the broader realities of waging a war or insurrection or insurgency (or whatever you want to call it). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=6)