# Hamas attacks Israel, October 2023 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news, israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 7, 2023, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234 "2023-10-07T10:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/101 "2023-10-07T23:28:19Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401](https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401) I though that the Palestinians were largely confined in Gaza with entry and exit tightly controlled by the IDF. How are the civilians supposed to leave Gaza? > [@Babale](#): > > Netanyahu is odious and vile. I feel dirty for having had to defend him, and will never forgive you for making me do so 😛 You have my sympathy. We in the US have also had odious and vile leaders. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The near-certainty that this attack will lead to the total destruction of Hamas as a military force, and the likelihood that Hamas’s leaders are aware of this, makes me worry a great deal. Why would Hamas commit organizational suicide like this? Why do people become suicide bombers? Or volunteer to fly airliners into large buildings? Or any other suicidal thing in the name of a cause? I know both Israelis and Palestinians and wish harm to none of them. Please, regardless of personal views on the situations, everyone affected by this stay safe. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/102 "2023-10-07T23:30:23Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I though that the Palestinians were largely confined in Gaza with entry and exit tightly controlled by the IDF. How are the civilians supposed to leave Gaza? Read the thread below that post. It was a very misleading cherry-picked translation, he was not telling anyone to leave Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/103 "2023-10-07T23:35:57Z")
Why would Hamas do this? Because it’s a Hell of a lot easier to kill Israeli soldiers in Gaza than it is in Israel. Hamas won’t be destroyed, no matter how vicious the retaliation is. They have a 2 million+ population to hide among. If it was that easy, Israel would have done it during one of its previous incursions. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/104 "2023-10-07T23:36:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > > > [https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401](https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1710738576915239401) > > I though that the Palestinians were largely confined in Gaza with entry and exit tightly controlled by the IDF. How are the civilians supposed to leave Gaza? No one told them to leave Gaza. They were told to leave the buildings Hamas is using to attack Israel. > [@Broomstick](#): > > You have my sympathy. We in the US have also had odious and vile leaders. I’m Israeli but live in the US. I have had the misfortune of being subjected to both Bibi and Trump. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Why do people become suicide bombers? Or volunteer to fly airliners into large buildings? Or any other suicidal thing in the name of a cause? It’s possible that this is a suicide attack on an organizational scale. But as I mentioned earlier, this kind of blaze of glory attack followed by retaliation by Israel is the perfect recruiting strategy for a group like Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/105 "2023-10-07T23:37:23Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I though that the Palestinians were largely confined in Gaza with entry and exit tightly controlled by the IDF. How are the civilians supposed to leave Gaza? Citizens of Gaza are to congregate at various locations within Gaza: > [@](#): > > IDF tells civilians in Gaza to leave their houses > > Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have urged civilians in Gaza to leave their residential areas immediately for their safety as Israeli military operations continue to target Hamas following Saturday’s surprise attacks. > > “Residents of the Gaza Strip, pay attention! Hamas operations force the IDF to operate in your place of residence. For your safety, you must leave your place of residence immediately,” Avichay Adraee, IDF spokesman for the Arab media, said in a post on X on Sunday. > > The post includes four videos that give instructions to civilians in Gaza on where to go in each area of the city. > > Some context: Almost 2 million people live in Gaza’s 140 square miles. Governed by Hamas, the densely packed territory is largely cut off from the rest of the world by an Israeli blockade of Gaza’s land, air and sea dating back to 2007. Egypt controls Gaza’s southern border crossing, Rafah. > > Israel has placed heavy restrictions on the freedom of civilian movement and controls the import of basic goods into the narrow coastal strip. > **[Israel-Gaza conflict erupts into fighting after attack by Palestinian militants](https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/al-aqsa-storm-militants-infiltrate-israel-after-gaza-rockets-10-07-intl-hnk#h_6b75eb9428d72e3e8f8d5e2eab087fcc)** > > Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that Israel is "at war" following a surprise attack from Gaza by Hamas militants. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/106 "2023-10-07T23:39:13Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > I though that the Palestinians were largely confined in Gaza with entry and exit tightly controlled by the IDF. How are the civilians supposed to leave Gaza? > > Read the thread below. It was a very misleading cherry-picked translation, he was not telling anyone to leave Gaza. Gaza has a population density of 6,500 per sq km or 16,000+ per sq mile. 2.5 million people living in just 365 sq km or 141 sq miles. In comparison, the city of Chicago is 231 sq miles or 607 sq km. Gaza has less area and more concentrated people. I am curious how that works out when missiles start flying and buildings start falling all over the Strip. Where do you go? How do you get there? This sounds like an utter nightmare for anyone in Gaza. A lot of people are going to die in the next 24 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/107 "2023-10-07T23:42:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Where do you go? How do you get there? There are reports that the IDF are issuing very specific instructions to civilians in Gaza where to go to for safety. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/108 "2023-10-07T23:43:22Z")
Israeli Defense Forces spokesman for the Arab media: > [@](#): > > #Urgent Residents of the Gaza Strip, pay attention! Hamas operations force the IDF to operate in your place of residence. For your safety, you must leave your place of residence immediately. 🔴 Residents of the Maqousi area should go to the Gaza City Center 🔴 Residents of Beit Hanoun should go to the Gaza City Center 🔴 Residents of the North and East Bureij area should go to shelter in the center’s camps 🔴 Residents of the East and South Maghazi area should go to shelter in the Center’s camps 🔴 Residents of the Abasan Al-Kabira area And Abasan Al-Saghira must go to Khan Yunis city center. 🔴 Residents of the Rafah area must go to the shelter in Rafah city center. 🔴 Residents of the area east of the Shujaiya neighborhood must go to Gaza City Center. > ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/109 "2023-10-07T23:49:50Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Israel has placed heavy restrictions on the freedom of civilian movement and controls the import of basic goods into the narrow coastal strip. Gee! I wonder why Israel might have been concerned about what was getting smuggled into Gaza! Apparently MANPADS, drones, and of course mountains of rockets. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/110 "2023-10-08T00:41:49Z")
If Hamas opposed Bibi Netanyahu, they couldn’t have come up with a better way to strengthen his hands and silence his critics than this. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/111 "2023-10-08T00:43:15Z")
Indeed. He gets to be a wartime PM now. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/112 "2023-10-08T00:46:04Z")
…who was caught asleep at the helm. I”m not so sure how this is going to shake out for him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/113 "2023-10-08T00:47:22Z")
Seemed to work out for Dubya when he got caught flat-footed on 9/11, and Bibi seems to have considerably more enduring popularity with as many political comebacks as he’s made. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/114 "2023-10-08T01:17:30Z")
This article (link below) offers a little more speculation. People will likely blame leadership for intelligence failures, but defer action in the short to medium term until things stabilize. **Excerpt** _I, [Martin Indyk] can only speculate—I’m still in shock, quite honestly. But I think you have to consider the context at this moment. The Arab world is coming to terms with Israel. Saudi Arabia is talking about normalizing relations with Israel. As part of that potential deal, the United States is pressing Israel to make concessions to the Palestinian Authority—Hamas’s enemy. So this was an opportunity for Hamas and its Iranian backers to disrupt the whole process, which I think in retrospect was deeply threatening to both of them. I don’t think that Hamas follows dictation from Iran, but I do think they act in coordination, and they had a common interest in disrupting the progress that was underway and that was gaining a lot of support among Arab populations. The idea was to embarrass those Arab leaders who have made peace with Israel, or who might do so, and to prove that Hamas and Iran are the ones who are able to inflict military defeat on Israel._ _There are talks going on regarding a peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia, and conversations about U.S. security guarantees for Saudi Arabia. In all likelihood, a primary motivation for Hamas and Iran was a desire to disrupt that deal, because it threatened to isolate them. And this was a very good way to destroy its prospects, at least in the near term. Once the Palestinian issue returns to front and center, and Arabs around the Middle East are watching American weapons in Israeli hands killing large numbers of Palestinians, that will ignite a very strong reaction. And leaders such as [Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince] Mohammad bin Salman will be very reluctant to stand up to that kind of opposition. Doing so would require him to stand up and tell his people, “This is not the way. My way will get the Palestinians much more than the way of Hamas, which only brings misery.” That kind of courage is, I think, too much to expect of any Arab leader in this kind of crisis._ > **[Why Hamas Attacked—and Why Israel Was Taken by Surprise](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/martin-indyk-why-hamas-attacked-and-why-israel-was-taken-surprise)** > > A conversation with Martin Indyk. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/115 "2023-10-08T01:33:14Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > It’s Shabbat today and sukkot so the army was low staffed today You’d think that if Israel learned one lesson from the Yom Kippur War it would’ve been “don’t short-staff your defenses on holidays”. They’re going to have to correct that blind spot in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/116 "2023-10-08T01:38:40Z")
One thing for sure, Israel’s government cannot and will not let this war end in anything other than a resounding Hamas defeat. Anything else sends the wrong message. But it’ll involve tens of thousands of deaths, unfortunately - many of them innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/117 "2023-10-08T01:59:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The majority of Palestinians (and Gazans in particular) are normal, peaceful humans who just want a peaceful life and a chance for their kids. They’re no different than any other big group of people anywhere else on Earth. The mass murderers currently rampaging in Israel are murderous scum, but their crimes are their own, and it’s tragic that peaceful men, women, and children living in Gaza are going to suffer for it. Hopefully Israel doesn’t follow your advice and harm (by forced relocation or otherwise) innocent children. Unfortunately Hamas isn’t a simple criminal organization like the Mafia that is distinguishable from an innocent civilian population. By its own design and intent it’s a political entity that claims with varying degrees of legitimacy to be a government. They’ve taken to heart Mao Zedong’s maxim that “The guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea”; and they’ve succeeded in regimenting the population they control far more effectively than the Irish Republican Army ever controlled Ulster. Seriously, can anyone in Gaza actually voice opposition to Hamas without being summarily killed? The USA learned (or should have) the naïve futility of thinking that a people are merely the helpless hostages of whatever evil regime rules them. I don’t think Israel is going to make the same mistake. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/118 "2023-10-08T02:03:56Z")
This happened in Germany. > **[Brandenburg Gate in Berlin lights up with Israeli flag in solidarity](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/brandenburg-gate-in-berlin-lights-up-with-israeli-flag-in-solidarity/)** > > \* \* \* ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/119 "2023-10-08T02:18:23Z")
Moderating: It’s impossible to talk about a war without some hint of politics, but if you want to delve into the political issues, please go to P&C, or yes, the pit. > [@Velocity](#): > > If Hamas opposed Bibi Netanyahu, they couldn’t have come up with a better way to strengthen his hands and silence his critics than this. So that’s a great discussion to have, but this is not the best thread for it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234/120 "2023-10-08T02:26:18Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Why do people become suicide bombers? Or volunteer to fly airliners into large buildings? Or any other suicidal thing in the name of a cause? “Why does Rice play Texas?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamas-attacks-israel-october-2023/991234.md?page=7)