# Hamburger meat pinkness... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 12, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497 "2002-11-12T23:09:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/1 "2002-11-12T23:09:32Z")
My mother recently brought home some hamburgers and upon the routine “checking the meat” she found a minimal amount of pinkness in some areas… Of course, being the paranoid individual she is, she immediately declares the burgers will make us sick and that she must take them back for well done ones… I don’t like my burgers bloody, but a little bit of pinkness doesn’t bother me, my point is, is there any sites to reference which clearly declare her opinion that any pinkness in burger meat WILL make you sick, wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/2 "2002-11-12T23:32:53Z")
Rare burgers are (in theory) less safe than rare steaks; with most whole cuts of meat, the majority of pathogens are on the outer surface and cooking destroys them. Burgers are made from meat ground up in the raw state - any pathogens on the outside surfaces get evenly mixed through the whole thing and may not be destroyed if the middle doesn’t get hot enough. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/3 "2002-11-12T23:54:11Z")
Should cook to 160\*F - to be “safe” Don’t know if that will eliminate all pinkness, but any well done beef is NOT as good. Can’t stand it when I go out and some chump at the table orders a well done burger. The cook always seems to cook them all to the same level, and I get stuck with a dry no flavor disc. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/4 "2002-11-12T23:57:12Z")
Pinkness in the burger increases the chance that it MIGHT make you sick. I don’t believe there’s a certainty that well-done burgers CAN’T make you sick, though of course the probability is lessened. I routinely eat pink burgers and to my knowledge have never gotten sick from it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/5 "2002-11-13T01:07:02Z")
I have eaten pink, red, and even cold red burgers (parts of frozen ones too) with never any problem. The problem (IMHO) is very minor and very unlikely or just for people without iron guts. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/6 "2002-11-13T03:45:30Z")
> [@](#): > > is there any sites to reference which clearly declare her opinion that any pinkness in burger meat WILL make you sick, wrong? No, because, as a matter of fact, Brandon, your mom is 100% spot on. Yes, she’s right again–dang. And what’s worse, the entire Internet–all 3,083,324,652 web pages of it–is on her side. Jeepers, dude, don’t you listen to the news? 😃 The whole deal with the E.coli outbreaks and all the ground beef recalls is that for all practical purposes the American consumer has to consider that the American ground beef supply is formally, permanently, susceptible to E.coli contamination, and that all (ALL) ground beef should always be cooked to “well done”, with no pinkness. CDC page for you, now that you’ve evidently clambered out of your mine shaft and rejoined Civilization. [http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/escherichiacoli\_g.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/escherichiacoli_g.htm) > [@](#): > > \*\*If you are served an undercooked hamburger or other ground beef product in a restaurant, send it back for further cooking. You may want to ask for a new bun and a clean plate, too. \*\*All Hail to the Ever-Vigilant Mom. I’d have done the same thing, plus I’d have given the restaurant manager holy hell for undercooking their burgers. To recap–bloody diarrhea, kidney failure in 2% to 7% of cases, and, sometimes, death. Recalls. [http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/recalls/prelease/pr055-2002.htm](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/recalls/prelease/pr055-2002.htm) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, July 19, 2002 — ConAgra Beef Company, a Greeley, Colo., establishment, is voluntarily recalling approximately 19 million pounds of beef trim and fresh and frozen ground beef products that may be contaminated with E. coli O157:H7, the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) announced today. > > The recall is an expansion of the June 30 voluntary recall of 354,200 pounds of fresh and frozen ground beef products. Today’s voluntary action was taken following a scientific and technical review of plant practices and company records by FSIS. The investigation indicated that product destined to become ground beef that was produced at the Greeley plant had a heightened possibility of containing E. coli O157:H7. > > \< snip \> > > He added that consumers can be confident that proper cooking kills harmful bacteria. Whether or not consumers find recalled product in their homes, following safe handling tips and cooking ground beef products to an internal temperature of 160 degrees F. will ensure that any harmful bacteria present will be eliminated. > > Eating a pink or red ground beef patty without first verifying that the safe temperature of 160 ºF has been reached is a significant risk factor for foodborne illness. [http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/recalls/prelease/pr086-2002.htm](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/recalls/prelease/pr086-2002.htm) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, Oct. 2, 2002—EMMPAK Foods Inc., doing business as Peck Meats, a Milwaukee, Wis., establishment, is voluntarily recalling an additional 2.3 million pounds of fresh and frozen ground beef products that may be contaminated with E. coli O157:H7, the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food Safety and Inspection Service announced today. > > The expansion brings the total amount of ground beef products being recalled to approximately 2.8 million pounds by EMMPAK Foods Inc. The products were distributed nationwide to retail stores, hotels, restaurants and other institutions. And these are only a couple of the hits from the USDA on “ground beef recalls”. [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) is the same way. Recall after recall. [http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/07/19/meat.recall/](http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/07/19/meat.recall/) [http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Midwest/09/27/ecoli.recall.ap/](http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Midwest/09/27/ecoli.recall.ap/) There was another one just the other day. [http://www.themonroetimes.com/o1108bee.htm](http://www.themonroetimes.com/o1108bee.htm) So the Straight Dope is, you have to assume that all ground beef is contaminated, and cook it “well done”. And no, this is not “paranoid”, just “better safe than sorry”. It’s like putting a battery in the smoke detector. You may never need it, but, boy, that one time you need it, you _really_ need it. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/7 "2002-11-13T04:29:12Z")
One solution is to ensure that beef is handled properly, instead of forcing us to eat overcooked food. ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/8 "2002-11-13T04:53:36Z")
I for one can’t wait until irradiated meat hits the market. Then I can have my steak sashimi without too much fuss. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/9 "2002-11-13T08:38:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chula \* > \*\*One solution is to ensure that beef is handled properly, instead of forcing us to eat overcooked food. \*\* Unfortunately, any amount of proper handling can only reduce the risk to a certain point; fact is that animals are full of (and often covered with) shit; cutting them into pieces will always carry a risk of contamination by fecal bacteria (you can’t see 'em). I suppose we could insist that all cuts of meat are immersed in bleach before grinding them, that might do it. If I want to eat bloody meat (and sometimes I do), I’ll get a steak, if I eat ground meat, I’ll expect to see it fully cooked (but not overcooked; there’s no need for it to be dried out). ---
**Author:** ![cantara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@cantara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cantara)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/10 "2002-11-13T13:56:15Z")
You can get a nice medium-rare burger at [Lick’s](http://www.lickshomeburgers.com) without worry…they [pasteurize](http://www.lickshomeburgers.com/pasteurization.html) the beef before it is ground… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/11 "2002-11-13T14:05:25Z")
Now _that’s_ a good idea and would amply qualify as ‘proper handling’ ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/12 "2002-11-13T15:27:58Z")
The temp is the critical factor. The color of meat is due to other factors than just cooking, so your mum is getting a false sense of security. The [USDA](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/pubs/colortech.htm) says > [@](#): > > 1. Some ground beef may appear to have lost all pink color before it is fully cooked. If raw ground beef is somewhat brown already, it may look fully cooked before it reaches a safe temperature. > > 2. Some lean ground beef may remain pink at temperatures well above the 160 ºF final cooking temperature recommended for consumers. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hamburger-meat-pinkness/136497/13 "2002-11-13T15:35:36Z")
They should add a \ after the “we’ve never had a bacterial problem”. It does sound like a process that more establishments should look into though.