# Hand vs machine made **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 1, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558 "2012-11-01T13:39:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/21 "2012-11-02T12:43:01Z")
So much (misplaced) nostalgia for the past! The era of “handmade” was the era of family factories (i.e. “sweatshops”)-handmade was expensive, and intensive of human labor. Today, men’s shirts are almost 100% machine sewn-and they are better! You can tell hand-sewn seams-the are not as straight as the machine-sewn ones-and not as good. Or take glassware-you can buy a hand-made Simon pierce wineglass for about $150…or machine made for $1.50-which functions better? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/22 "2012-11-02T13:39:24Z")
You hear a lot of this same type of discussion when gun enthusiasts get together. Guns from the 1st tier manufacturers used to require a lot of hand-fitting and polishing. Especially since the advent of CNC machining, they require little to none and are simply assembled by the workers. There are gunsmiths and boutique factories who will still make you one by hand, Holland and Holland for example, but you better expect to hemorrhage money from every orifice and expect largely subjective benefit from your purchase. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/23 "2012-11-02T13:45:21Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > And she said when she sewed garments, they were considered handmade even if she used a sewing machine. I wonder if I could create a CAD model of an object and have a makerbot make it, and call it hand-made if I do enough hand-fiddling with the original model. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/24 "2012-11-02T14:47:10Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Depends on the application. > A custom tailored, hand made suit is something no machine is currently capable of. Someday perhaps but for really excellent quality when the inputs vary, hand crafted is currently tops.. Thus my comment on small quantities. Machines could easily be setup to make that perfect suit just for you but building a machine to make that perfect suit would not be practical unless you wanted 300 of them. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/25 "2012-11-02T15:11:31Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Thus my comment on small quantities. Machines could easily be setup to make that perfect suit just for you but building a machine to make that perfect suit would not be practical unless you wanted 300 of them. Thanks! You reminded me of that funny scene in Woody Allen’s “Sleeper”-where he gets fitted for a suit by a robot tailor (with a Jewish accent)-40 seconds later, it pops out-and the sleeves are 6" too long!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/26 "2012-11-02T15:41:48Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Depends on the application. > A custom tailored, hand made suit is something no machine is currently capable of. Someday perhaps but for really excellent quality when the inputs vary, hand crafted is currently tops.. I’ll bet you $5 that your handmade custom tailored suit was sewn together using a sewing machine or two. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/27 "2012-11-02T16:52:55Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I’ll bet you $5 that your handmade custom tailored suit was sewn together using a sewing machine or two. On some of the easier parts, sure, but I’ve personally watched a tailor hand sew the more difficult areas. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/28 "2012-11-02T16:54:37Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Thus my comment on small quantities. Machines could easily be setup to make that perfect suit just for you but building a machine to make that perfect suit would not be practical unless you wanted 300 of them. See I’m not sure that’s true. If you watch a good tailor sewing the arms on to a suit they take care to make each and every stich correctly amking fine adjustments along the way. It’s never the same process twice. I’m really not sure we have the AI to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Jamicat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jamicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamicat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/29 "2012-11-03T08:17:25Z")
She was using a coping saw…and yes there are reciprocating fine tooth table saws just for that purpose, which they should have. We use the electric stuff for main stock removal and hand tools for the final carve, there is more feel and dexterity with hand tools. Violins and such are a strange beast, all natural sound no metal…cep’t for a few things like screws. (no screws on the instrument itself) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/30 "2012-11-03T12:30:01Z")
> [@Jamicat](#): > > She was using a coping saw… Thanks for the clarification. I was surprised at her use of the term “bowsaw”. When she gets home, I’ll ask her for clarification. Always good to use the correct term, and would be curious if the school used an incorrect one for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/31 "2012-11-03T19:13:43Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > And she said when she sewed garments, they were considered handmade even if she used a sewing machine. > > So I imagine “handmade” might be most meaningful as an antonym to “assembly line.” I’m thinking it’s more of a continuum. I have a sweater I crocheted. The only tools I used were crochet hooks, scissors, and a yarn needle. My sweater is definitely handmade as opposed to machine-made sweaters you buy at most stores. BUT I bought the yarn online. It’s an acrylic yarn so it may be that the first human hands that touched it are the ones that put it in the shipping box. Or maybe not even that – if JoAnn’s has a sophisticated enough operation, their goods may be picked and boxed by robots. There are artisans who shear their own sheep, hand-dye the wool and spin it themselves. A sweater crocheted by one of these folks would be more handmade than mine. I’ll bet the class bought the wood for the violins in board form. There were likely power machines involved in cutting the tree and shaping the boards. If a violin was made by someone who selected the tree for the wood, cut it down with an axe, and shaped to boards with hand tools, the violin would be even more handmade than the one your wife is making. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/32 "2012-11-04T14:07:49Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > As a general rule if it’s a repetitive task that will be performed exactly the same and with consistent material inputs then machining is better. A good example is spray painting car bodies in a production line. > > For tasks where attention to detail is critical and no two pieces are exactly the same, meaning minor but critical adjustments need to be made at each step, then hand made is superior. A good example is a hand tailored suit. > > Someday we may have good enough machines and AI to take on these more complicated tasks, but not today. This post says so much. As a carpenter I use jigs and power tools whenever I can, it almost always is going to result in a more consistent product. A hinge bossed out with a router and jig is always going to be much closer to perfect than one by hand and chisel. I suspect that in ‘the good old days’ things were automated wherever possible. You could use some sort of general purpose hand saw to cut out a violin back but the result with a keyhole or some small detail saw is going to be not only better but faster. There is much specialization (even more in the past) in hand tools precisely because of this. There almost definitely was a whole set of ‘violin makers’ saws back in the day. They used powered mechanized tools to cut and polish marble slabs in classical Greece. The guys hand carving the statues still probably had specialized tools for their purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/33 "2012-11-04T14:53:35Z")
I can see the practical arguments for handmade violins, but I’m not sure I buy the philosophical arguments for handmade things generally. 17th-century artisans weren’t using (what we now call) traditional techniques because they were Traditional, they were using the state-of-the-art technology at the time (also, slave labor). I’ve seen a similar argument with cooking: as Mario Batali will tell you, Italian cooks use largely local ingredients. So if I’m making Italian(-style) food here in New York, should I use Italian ingredients or local ingredients? Same thing with making artifacts, do you use traditional techniques or state-of-the-art techniques? Either can be justified historically. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/34 "2012-11-04T17:21:10Z")
As an aside: I realized just the other day that the word “manufactured” literally means “hand-made”, if you go back to the Latin roots. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/35 "2012-11-04T18:09:28Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > See I’m not sure that’s true. If you watch a good tailor sewing the arms on to a suit they take care to make each and every stich correctly amking fine adjustments along the way. It’s never the same process twice. I’m really not sure we have the AI to do that. But you are confusing the custom aspect of the job with the actual manufacturing technique. Custom suits are good because they fit the customer perfectly, not because the construction is superior due to being made by hand. \ ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/36 "2012-11-04T19:15:21Z")
> [@treis](#): > > But you are confusing the custom aspect of the job with the actual manufacturing technique. Custom suits are good because they fit the customer perfectly, not because the construction is superior due to being made by hand. \ It’s both. Go and get a suit off the rack from Macy’s and compare it to one that’s been hand made by an experienced tailor. The difference is readily apparent. It’s not just the fit, the construction is vastly superior in a custom suit. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/37 "2012-11-04T21:56:29Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > It’s both. Go and get a suit off the rack from Macy’s and compare it to one that’s been hand made by an experienced tailor. The difference is readily apparent. It’s not just the fit, the construction is vastly superior in a custom suit. But that’s because Macy’s suits are cheap and don’t use the same construction methods as a custom suit. A machine could make a fully canvassed suit out of a nice material, but it would end up costing $600-1000 instead of $250. At that price point, you are better off going with cheaper material and construction but with a custom fit. In short, it’s market demand, not technology. A mass produced suit in the $800 range would be better quality than a handmade one, but it would fit far worse. Thus, it is inferior and can’t compete at that price point. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/38 "2012-11-04T22:01:10Z")
> [@treis](#): > > But that’s because Macy’s suits are cheap and don’t use the same construction methods as a custom suit. A machine could make a fully canvassed suit out of a nice material, but it would end up costing $600-1000 instead of $250. At that price point, you are better off going with cheaper material and construction but with a custom fit. In short, it’s market demand, not technology. A mass produced suit in the $800 range would be better quality than a handmade one, but it would fit far worse. Thus, it is inferior and can’t compete at that price point. Nope. Pick any off the rack suit you like if you don’t like Macy’s. It’s still not gonna be close the the quality of hand made. No comparison. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/39 "2012-11-04T22:05:25Z")
> [@treis](#): > > A mass produced suit in the $800 range would be better quality than a handmade one Better quality? Not even close. A hand made suit has each stitch (for the more difficult areas I’ll admit) compensate for changes in the material. Sewing machines just don’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558/40 "2012-11-05T01:42:24Z")
Is this a course for people who are not necessarily familiar with woodworking? If so, then I suspect that they could be making people learn using hand tools first, just to learn more about working with wood. I’m self-teaching myself a little about sewing, and have found that with working with fabric, I’m learning more by doing things by hand. I tried using a machine, and while I’m sure that I would eventually get some expertise on fabric, I was able to plow ahead quickly without really learning because the machine covered up my rookie mistakes. I don’t plan on doing things by hand forever. Once I get a little more experience, I’ll go back to learning with a machine. Now if expertise in woodworking is a prerequisite, then this would obviously not be the case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hand-vs-machine-made/639558.md?page=3)